2023, Family, Uncategorized, work

Legal Eagle

57 Comments

The regulatory board of which I am a member has had the same attorney for the past 11 years. The Board attorney is provided to us by the State Attorney General’s Office. He has been very helpful. We were sad to learn at our most recent meeting that he is leaving to be the executive director of a medical practitioner regulatory group. We will miss him.

I am happy to say that my experiences with attorneys have been pretty limited over the years. I mainly interact with the local county attorneys in my capacity as an expert witness and when I am the expert examiner for mental health commitments. I get along quite well with all the county attorneys and district judges. We used to have a quite inept local attorney who everyone referred to as “The Dumb Swede” to distinguish him from “The Big Swede”, a very tall district judge. I keep waiting for the retirement of another local attorney who must be in his 70’s and who has had the same really awful toupee for the 35 years I have known him. The toupee looks like it is being devoured by moths.

The other day in the grocery store, Husband and I ran into one of our district judges (not the Big Swede) who also attends our church. The judge made a comment about a rather flamboyant older member of the congregation who had recently died. Husband told His Honor in jest that he really needed to stop judging people like that. The judge thought that was pretty funny.

What have been your experiences with attorneys? Any good lawyer or judge jokes? Any stories about toupees?

57 thoughts on “Legal Eagle”

  1. What do you call 1000 attorneys at the bottom of the ocean… A good start?
    I met my attorney’s dad about 35 years ago to my accountant and was lucky enough to discover that his kid is a wonderful attorney although he is a bit of a Trumpy he’s become a good friend and a card playing regular at my monthly card playing session so he gives me lawyerly advice when needed and when there’s a charge, he figured out a way to keep it on the low end for me. I had way too much to do with lawyers for about 15 or 20 years running. Hopefully I can get that behind me I thought about becoming an attorney when I was a kid, and then, because of some legal interactions with the court system that I had I decided that I needed to get that cancer as far away from my life as I could
    One of the other card players in my group is an attorney who has never seen the courtroom it does, or rather did legal stuff for corporate and buy outs and corporate terminology and contracts, and such he recently retired at age 55, after collecting 400 or $500 an hour for the last 40 years and is living the good life

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  3. I guess I’ve only had to deal with attorneys around issues related to death and estates. A friend of mine has set up a trust in the past year, and it may be something we should look into.

    How many lawyer jokes are there?
    Only three – the rest are true stories.

    It makes you wonder at what point did lawyers enter the picture? When did our rules become so complicated that we couldn’t figure them out for ourselves?

    I know I’ve seen a toupee on someone around here somewhere…

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    1. at what point did life get too complicated for us to figure things out for ourselves? Have you met the humanity involved in ourselves? Many of them can’t figure out how to do hard boiled eggs.

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    2. Setting up a trust is definitely something you should not only look into, BiR, but something that is well worth actually doing. It will save a lot of trouble, and having to go through probate, for whoever survives the other. Hans and I finally got around to doing it just before the pandemic shut everything down; what a relief that was. And it wasn’t that expensive.

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  4. Our legislature is in session, and it is interesting to hear how the use of the word “shall” in new laws (The Board shall…..) has a much different impact on what we do compared to “may” (The Board may….). Legislators often don’t understand that, and the AG’s office is running interference on things like this all session.

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    1. Considering that many, if not most, legislators are lawyers, there should be no need to run interference on such a simple concep. “Shall” and “may” have distinct meanings within the law, I think most normal people, even those of us without law degrees, know that.

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        1. Maybe that explains your predicament?

          Your answer intrigued me, Renee, so I looked into the number of lawyers in various states’ legislatures, and in the US Congress. The numbers are quite interesting and revealing, I think. Unfortunately, there doesn’t appear to be accurate current data, it’s all at least a couple of years old, but still, quite indicative of the current state of affairs. We certainly can’t blame it all on lawyers.

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        3. Now we’re venturing out on really thin ice. How would you define a “normal” person? I suspect you’d get a different definition if you asked a doctor, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a politician, or a lawyer. Interesting to think about, though. I think “normal” is much more inclusive today than it was, say, thirty years ago.

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  6. As a group, attorneys are at the root cause of some of the biggest problems in this country and the world. My biggest complaint is that they write all the laws and rules and procedures and policies and warranties and contracts and have a vested interest in making life as complicated as possible so their services will always be required to explain what they wrote and what we can’t understand because we don’t know “attorneyspeak.” Sort of a self-perpetuating, mutating virus that loves to change the rules as soon as we start to understand the old rules.

    Individually, however, I’m sure most are honest, hardworking, and nice to be around. One brother-in-law is an attorney and one of the best men you’ll ever meet. My limited work with my attorney and attorneys for family members who passed away has been fine., albeit always seeming to be expensive for what they do for me/us. Just like doctors, you don’t really pay for their time on an hourly basis, you pay for their accumulated expertise.

    Chris in Owatonna (Who, as you might recall, is a lousy joke-rememberer)

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    1. Whoa! Your opening statement is quite the mouthful, Chris, and I think it may be overstating the case quite a bit.

      There are reasons why laws tend to be written is such a convoluted and explicit way. It’s an attempt at closing the loopholes that people, some of them lawyers, will immediately set out to find. Corporate America has cadres of lawyers whose main responsibility is to assure that corporate policies are in compliance with the letter of the law, if not the spirit of it. In fact, they are often tasked with identifying ways of circumventing the law without breaking it.

      Unscrupulous people are found in all professions, some more visible than others. Unfortunately, the law profession has attracted some very high profile ones, and those are the ones we tend to remember.

      Another reason I think a lot of lawyers get a bum rap, is that people don’t understand that a defense attorney, for example, often is assigned to defend people who have committed reprehensible acts. Take, for instance, the attorney defending Derek Chauvin. I don’t for a second believe that his attorney wasn’t appalled by what he saw on that video, and also realized how futile that assignment was. But someone had to do it, and do it to the best of his capability; the law requires it.

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      1. In a case like Chauvin’s the job of the defense is to be critical of the evidence- to assure that it explicitly proves what the prosecutor says it does. If it doesn’t, his client is innocent by default no matter what the defense attorney thinks privately.

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        1. Absolutely, I agree, Bill. Unfortunately, lots of people don’t get that. They somehow believe that to provide legal defense for someone whose crime seems obvious and abhorrent, you have to think it isn’t a crime somehow approve of it. Hillary Clinton is a case in point. During her presidential campaign, some people accused her of approving of rape, or at least not seeing it as a serious crime, because she had been a public defender in a rape case. These so-called “normal” people voted.

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      2. Point taken, PJ. I’ll respond by saying that lobbyists (plenty of whom are probably lawyers too) often persuade members of Congress to pass bills specifically written (by lawyers) to intentionally, but sneakily, INSERT loopholes that directly benefit the lobbyists’ clients. They often write bills that are hundreds of pages of legalese to hide those items and deter anyone, especially legislators, from even reading them, let alone understanding all the ramifications, costs, and benefits.

        One big example of that is the oil and gas industry getting federal subsidies for decades that give them huge tax benefits and suppress competition from other forms of energy like wind and solar.

        Also, excessive rules, regulations, and compliance requirements are often enacted into laws because large corporations see it as a way to deter competition from small businesses that often don’t have big legal departments to handle those matters as easily or cheaply as a big corporation’s legal department.

        The way I see it, a majority of laws in this country have been put in place to protect the rich and powerful from losing their wealth and power, And in many cases, to increase both.

        I will say I too have the utmost respect for defense attorneys in general (money-grubbing ambulance chasers not included) because their role is misunderstood as you and Bill pointed out with the Chauvin case.

        Chris

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        1. I agree, Chris. Lobbyist representing big corporations, or whole industries – the gun lobby comes to mind – are a huge problem. I think there’s little doubt that the money backing them exerted undue influence at all levels of government. Probably to a much higher degree than most of us are aware, would be my guess.

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  7. Rise and Shine, Baboons,

    I have some good experiences and some disappointing experiences. Shakespeare’s quote from Henry VI is “First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers.” When I was in Child Protection Services and Children’s Mental Health Cases Management I had a coffee cup with that quote. The Guthrie was selling it during a production of Henry VI. I am sure it was a big seller.

    I could go on and on with lawyer and judge stories. However, I have other things to do, so I will not do that. All I can say is this: if you have need of a lawyer make sure he/she is competent and reputable.

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  8. Fortunately, I’ve had few experiences with lawyers. There is always something to be grateful for.

    One of my dad’s best friends (in his short life) was a lawyer who shared the same office building with Dad in Owatonna in the 1960s through the 1980s. The same local law firm George built is still there, on the corner of North Cedar and Vine. I only know one of the lawyers there now. The son of the orthodontist of my youth. George was a really nice man and he really looked out for my brothers and I when my dad started to get really sick and finally passed away. I don’t think Dad’s estate was in perfect order but George found everything there was to find and made sure we were well advised when we had decisions to make.

    I had a friend from Mankato who was a well-known lawyer and social advocate. He was kind of a biker/hipster guy too. He advocated for light rail transit from Mankato to the west Metro. If it ever does happen, he was one of the first to push for it. He also supported and organized numerous blues concerts and events in the Mankato/St. Peter area. He hosted multiple blues music shows on KMSU (member-supported radio from Mankato). They were “Blues Before Monday” on Sunday evenings, and “Blues Break” every week day at 11:30, and others. He supported Rock Bend Folk Festival and emceed when we had a well-known blues group. He often found and coordinated those groups for us. He was Rock Bend’s attorney. He died in a tragic motorcycle accident about a year and a half ago. He was in his 60s.

    So, my experiences with lawyers have mostly been good. The only negative interaction I ever had with a lawyer was when my DNR supervisor was charged with harassment and I was so frightened. They really do know how to make you lose sleep. She was working in my best interest and I understand that now but she put the screws to me and got me to hand over my notes on what had been occurring – to me and to others.

    I can’t remember jokes. I love laughing at them, especially puns, but I can’t remember them at all.

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    1. Small world, Krista. My estate-planning lawyer works for that firm. And I’m looking at it right now from across the street through the window of OTB cafe on North Cedar in Owatonna! 🙂

      I know George too. He’s the father of my chiropractor. I also had a few chats with him years ago down in the exercise room of the country club we belong to. A super nice gentleman and a pillar of the community in Owatonna. Unfortunately, age is catching up with him and he’s not doing too well mentally or physically.

      Chris

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        2. I haven’t seen any of the “Dow kids” in years. Our families were friends when we were kids. There were other families with kids too and we played together. He had a brother Craig, and two sisters, Nancy and Lisa. George’s wife was friends with my mom. She passed away a few years ago now, I think before COVID19.

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  9. Some of my favorite people in the world are lawyers. From my six years working in a law firm, I can honestly say that I have never worked with a more thoughtful bunch of folks. Of course, there were a couple of notable exceptions, but as a whole they were fair-minded and fun to associate with, and several of them, I’m happy to say, remain good friends.

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  10. George Santos was a lawyer on retainer for animal shelters in Queens before being elected to the United States House of Representatives.
    Come on! Can I at least get a snort?

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  11. I know a few attorneys. They can be helpful if they’re on your side of course.
    Thankfully I’ve never been on the wrong side of an attorney.
    It was an attorney that threw my bachelor party way back when. 🙂

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  12. Without posting it, I will always remember Jackie Chiles, Seinfeld lawyer. The bra doesn’t fit episode is classic

    Okay. I lied but it was not under oath.

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  13. My dad was an attorney. He started at the Missouri State Highway department in the eminent domain division. That’s where the state comes along and takes a strip of your land because they’re going to expand the highway. Obviously the state wants to give you as little money as possible for your land. When he moved to private practice, when I was in the fifth grade, he took the other side of the fence and defended people against the state. He was remarkably good at it, and wrote some of the caselaw that is now used in Missouri. One of the times this summer when I visited my mom, she gave me the certificate from when my father argued in front of the US Supreme Court. I got it framed and it’s hanging up in the hallway here.

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  14. Lawyer jokes were discouraged in my house by my mother. She was rabidly defensive of the legal profession in general and my father in particular. She does not think that lawyer jokes are funny at all.

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  15. That being said. The richest man in the state, on his deathbed, called in his priest, his doctor and his lawyer. He said to them that he wanted to take his money with him to the next life. He gave them each a suitcase full of money and told them “when I die I want you to put the money in the grave with me.” A couple of weeks later the richest man did pass away and the doctor, the priest and the lawyer all threw a suitcase into the grave. A couple of years later the three of them met for drinks. The priest said “I need to confess. Before I threw the suitcase into the grave, I took out $50,000 for my parish that we used to restore the church.” The doctor said “I have a confession as well. Before I threw the suitcase in, I took $100,000 out and used it for the new wing of the Children’s Hospital. The two of them turned and looked at the lawyer. Aghast he said “I’m shocked. I threw in a check for the whole amount!”

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  17. My mother worked as a legal secretary when I was a teenager. The lawyer she worked for was a former neighbor, and I think he felt he was doing her a favor by giving her a job. He didn’t reliably pay her on time. I remember one year I went grocery shopping with her just before Christmas. She hadn’t been paid recently and was down to the last seven dollars in her checking account. I think at that time her boss was off on a ski vacation in Colorado with his wife and son.

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