Yesterday’s discussion got me thinking … When you really have to choose one or the other, which is better? For some reason a website called bankrate.com took this one on.
I guess dealing with actual bank rates became too depressing.
A recycling website, reuseit.com, occupies the middle ground.
And like every other type of human conflict, this one has been in court. The contest was described in one of my favorite short radio programs.
The Living Law! Cases from the back files of the law firm of Badger and Hackle. Today, the highly emotional case of Paper V. Plastic.
The plaintiff, Paper, contended that the defendant, Plastic, had wrongly and wantonly usurped Paper’s position as all-purpose goods carrier to the nation. Furthermore, Paper alleged that Plastic damaged the previously solid reputation of the Single Use Bag Community (SUBC) with loose post-purchase behavior, defaming all bag-dom by blowing randomly in the wind, choking defenseless animals, collecting along fence lines and gathering in large, floating unregulated garbage piles far out at sea.
Plastic’s defense was that Paper’s charges arose from simple jealousy and typical sour grapes, which, if they were rotten and weeping, you would want to carry in a plastic bag. Possible reasons for this resentment include but are not limited to:
– Paper is fat and thick while plastic is thin and light.
– Paper is expensive to produce and wastes trees, while Plastic is magically extruded from oil, which is a finite resource that is already spread all over the ocean, so Plastic’s tendency to return there is only natural.
– Plastic is colorful while Paper is drab and brown.
Plastic’s attorney argued that Paper’s suit against Plastic was frivolous, and nothing more than the last gasp of a dying industry. He suggested that cashiers should ask the famous “paper or plastic” question differently, saying “Plastic, unless you feel you absolutely NEED to have Paper.”
If you were a judge, what would you say?
The answer after a word from our sponsor.Have you ever been accused of wrongdoing and had the unpleasant task of finding an attorney to represent you? Most attorneys believe every person deserves a fair trial and they will defend even the lowest, sleaziest reprobate in the interests of keeping our legal system functional and fair. But if you did the crime, even some of these helpful lawyers will look down on you and they will not treat you with sympathy.
The attorneys at Badger and Hackle are different. Many of them were worthless punks when they were teenagers and twenty-somethings. A lot of them are still punks today!
So if you’re accused of a crime, consider bringing your case to the law firm of Badger & Hackle. Especially if you really, really did it. We relate to people who are a blight on the behind of society. No matter how awful you are, you deserve a lawyer who understands you!
Badger and Hackle – the ones to come to when you’re guilty!
The judge ruled that while Plastic had indeed engaged in reckless, harmful and morally suspect behavior, those actions reflected only on the reputation of Plastic and not on Paper or any other member of the Bag family, including Canvas, Cloth, Lunch, and Papa’s Got A Brand New.
Paper, the judge said, should “get a grip” and try not to “fall apart so easily.”
Sound unlikely? It’s the Living Law!
How do you feel about courtroom dramas?
Trail Baboon 
Rise and Shine Baboons:
Courtroom dramas? I did 5 years of Child Protection work which is heavily court driven. What drama? A courtroom is not as portrayed on TV’s or movies. They are boring and methodical, then sprinkled with gross incompetence. Furthermore, the judges, court clerks, and deputies do everything to keep drama and violence at bay.
The most dramatic thing I was ever involved in included a seriously ill young person who set a wastebasket on fire, then tried to throw a chair at the judge. It wasn’t dramatic, it was just pathetic.
Paper vs plastic is much more fun than real courts!
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You are surely right, Jacque, and it must hurt if you are a committed advocate for one side and then the trial turns out to be tedious and somehow inappropriate to the facts of the case.
But some court cases are fun.
My dad’s first boss was boating in northern Minnesota when his outboard caught on fire. Then the boat began burning. Chev, the boss, was comforted because he had a fire extinguisher. But it refused to squirt, and the boat burned to the waterline.
Chev sued the fire extinguisher company. The prosecuting attorney finally asked, “Mr. Adams, this is the actual fire extinguisher that let you down so tragically that afternoon. Please demonstrate for the jury what you did when your boat was on fire.”
As you’ve already guessed, Chev squoze the lever and soaked the jury in a long spray of fire retardant. It was a great moment in American justice, not equaled possibly until OJ grimaced as he tried to put on the gloves!
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That would be interesting and funny. Isn’t that spray toxic? The poor jury!
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Yikes, if the spray was toxic, wouldn’t that be grounds for another bunch of lawsuits?
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Greetings and a gentle good morning to all! A semi-sleepless night so I’ve been productive for the last 2 hours. Then I realized Dale had probably posted today’s blog topic — yeah! And a funny one, too — thanks for the chuckle, Dale!
Personally, I love courtroom dramas on TV. LA Law, Law & Order, Special Victims Unit, even Perry Mason. In movies: Liar, Liar, Legally Blonde for comedies and many others for dramas. In plays, The Crucible and Inherit the Wind are faves. I’m always thrilled by the verbal parries, the new revelations, new ways of twisting or perverting the letter of the law, strong characters and excellent acting with high production values. Good courtroom drama is difficult to do well as it’s just talking heads, but with the right folks it can be riveting.
I recently watched the movie Frost/Nixon which was amazing — Frank Langella was soooo Richard Nixon. Some folks may find these types of movies boring without action, car chases, gun shots and explosions, but not for me.
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Rent Runaway Jury if you haven’t seen it.
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langella was great and thanks for the recall of perry mason, a round of munchies and a perry mason was my evening routine for years in the 70’s
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I was an advocate at a domestic abuse shelter a few years ago . We would go with the women to court for an order for protection and sometimes the abuser would show up and scare us all by yelling and cursing and getting all red in the face. A really nasty bunch! The judge and guards were always very protective, though so that was nice. Kind of exciting.
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post and pre courtroom drama all in one
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Morning!
I am at ‘work’ work early today… I’m hoping we don’t have much drama here today… My lovely wife and I have recently become hooked on the late night reruns of ‘Boston Legal’ and it’s fun. Too bad it’s on at 11:30 Sunday nights! But yes, we know that isn’t real… it’s on TV– it can’t be real life! Right?
Back to work.
Have a good Friday! …if you want to…
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learnn tivo ben. its an option of the new millenium that makes life work better. 1130 saturday could become anytime. buy a tivo on ebay for next to nothing and enjoy.
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I have a DVR tim… it’s not the recording that’s an issue; it’s the finding time to watch it later that’s the problem.
I’ve got two Netflix movies on the TV now; one is from June…
Where’s the ‘hours in the day Tivo’??
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Good Morning and Order in the Court!
I do enjoy some of the TV shows that include court room drama and have even watched Judge Judy a few times. I don’t particularly care for some of the news coverage of big trials, but our news media is always covering big stories in a way that boarders on “yellow journalism” while not giving very good coverage of important issues.
I know about the kind of boring court room action that Jacque mentioned. However, I was personally involved in court room action as a juror and found that interesting. My jury duty only involved one trial which ened in a mistrial. I enjoyed meeting the other people on the jury and following the case presented which I later found was declared a mistrial because the prosecutor allowed a witness to present some information that came from a previous investigation that was never made public which was not part of the case I was hearing.
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I was on a jury once, too. It was a cool experience. We were able to come to a decision, but it was one of those decisions that hinged on “reasonable doubt.” Some members of the jury were pretty sure that the defendant was guilty, but we didn’t have firm evidence that provided it “beyond a reasonable doubt.” It took about half of our deliberation time to hammer out whether the evidence we had was good enough (no), circumstantial (some), and was it a clear “guilty” (no again). It was a good exercise in how the system is supposed to work.
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I love drama all sorts — as long as I am the interested observer and not personally involved.
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nice to see you again mn in sudbury. nice country up there eh?
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Hi tim! Glad to see you home safe and sound. I don’t know the least about team sports, but it sounds like you had a good showing.
In some ways Sudbury is like a step back in time: my paycheque will be handed to me (!); when we call people on Kijiji (Craigslist equivalent), they try to talk us out of buying their stuff — and when we do buy whatever the item is, they help us load it… and in the case of our fridge, even install it!
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sounds like a nice step out of the rat race. enjoy good luck and keep us posted
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I’m grateful to be able to say that I’ve had very little first-hand experience with court room drama. I’m a truly boring old folkie. I like gardening, reading, writing, crocheting, weaving, beading, going for walks with Pippin, playing guitar and mandolin and singing. These things don’t bring me anywhere near court rooms, and I’m glad of that! The idea of court room drama is a little scary for me. It’s interesting to hear (from Jacque) how truly boring it is.
Have a drama-free weekend, Baboons! Don’t forget your re-usables!
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i am back among my people after the drive a thon form spokane. perry maso was it for me. they could just keep doing it forever. i think a replacement for raymond burr could be career defining. and paul drake, and della and hamilton burger. what a crew.
johnny depp as perry, matthew mConaughey as drake, madonna as della, and lyle lovett as ham burger.
i did enjoy law and order and the whole gammit of shows today seems to kind of blend in my mind. it seems not to matter if it is hospital, cops, lawyers, crime scene investigators, the whole thing is about personal relationships between the co stars and their love interests and dysfunctional relationships. wasn’t it cool when every now and again perry would look at della’s legs as she walked away and you’d wonder if he was attracted to her?
maybe thats what we have come to. if its not cleavage in you face you may not notice she is a woman. there are no 5’3″ 160lb woman on tv.(other than oprah). give me a good mystery and a brain twister. dial m for murder and anatomy of a murder are great examples, shakespear twists you brain the same way in a dysfunctional family setting rather than the courtroom.
i think the badger and hackle mantra of ” come to us especially if youre guilty is a marvelous premise for a tv drama, punk lawyers. ive met a few of those would be an interesting new frontier.
nice to be back
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Glad you’re back home safe and sound, tim, and congrats to the team!
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Welcome Back!
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G’morning all. I’m off to a late start and am still sleepy.
I’ve enjoyed courtroom dramas all my life, but only once have I served on a jury. I told myself not to expect too much, as life is messy and boring more often than not. And there were moments like that. Surprisingly, though, my one court case was utterly fascinating. It was fought out between an excellent defense attorney and the formidable Susan Gaertner.
And the case was notorious, causing a stir in the press. A career criminal stole a bass from a jazz musician and took it to a nearby pawnshop. By coincidence, Channel 5’s “Good Company” daytime show was at the pawn shop doing a fluffy feature. Does anyone remember hosts Steve and Sharon? A friend called them “the whitest couple in America.” The thief cheerfully agreed to appear in the feature with his “guitar” and after going on film he was eager to know when the show would air. When it did air, the victim’s neighbor recognized the bass and told the police who had stolen it. The Saint Paul cops, by the way, were doing their best imitation of Inspector Clouseau.
The jury deliberation came down to a single issue: could anyone be so damn dumb as to volunteer to go on TV pawning a hot bass? Half the jury couldn’t believe anyone would be that dumb. I led the other group, insisting that criminals are not mental giants. My side eventually prevailed.
Anyone who would like to see the story I wrote on this can get a free copy from me: mnstorytelr(at)comcast.net.
I’m ready for a quiet weekend. Life has been too interesting lately. My sweet housemate, Katie the English setter, just suddenly went blind. She and I are adjusting to a life we didn’t anticipate. But then, that is one definition of life, isn’t it? It is all the stuff that you didn’t anticipate that happens when you were making other plans.
Have a wonderful weekend fellow Baboons. Is this the weekend backyard tomatoes start coming in? That’s something to look forward to.
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steve, so sorry to hear about the new challenge for you and katie. it will make everything a new version of life as you know it. that is the definition of life but that is amusing and not comforting or a very satisfactory response to the when bad things happen to good people (and dogs) situation.
i’d love a copy of the trial. send it to timjones2020@gmail.com.
my court room experience with my jury duty was one where a guy from saint paul was mad because he got sold a really bad pound of marijuana by his dealer so he went over with his band of east side thugs and beat the guy up and stole his stereo system as payback for getting hosed on the pound. it went on for 4 days and the guy beating up the dealer got off because he stated to the police that the guy who beat him up had love and hate tatooed on his knuckles and the real tatoo’s read love and f..k. the othre jurors said this proved the victim idn’t really read the knuckles he just thought he knew them. true justice. the jurors aren’t rocket scientists either i am afraid.
have a good weekend and i hope you and katie are able to keep your spirits up.
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My hound is blind in one eye – and has adapted well to his partial sight. I imagine with time your Katie will, too – though with no sight at all it may take more time. Resilient critters, dogs. Sympathies on the loss to both of you.
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the boys are back from the trenches and the second place finish was good enough.
they can say they were there and did well. they got to the final game and got walloped. the pitcher who beat them last time was up in the rotation again and they had him figured out this time around, they replaced him with a guy who got pasted and replaced by another who found prety much the same fate. it was hard to watch the death spiral after a season of comebacks and never saying quit. it was time. they will be able to say they were there in the big game, and its a shame that what was 5000 teams a month ago came down to two and we walk away feeling like 2nd best. thats the thing about sports, pretty good is in reality very good but not good enough. my son gets to dream of going back again next year but he says it is doubtfult the replacements for the guys moving on will be as strong. you can’t go back so enjoy it now. words to live by.
thanks for the fun in sharing the experience.
football started monday while we were gone so we are already on to the next thing. eden prairie took second in the state last year ( is there a theme here?) so they are fired up to do it better this year. onward and upward.
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Congratulations to you and the boys, Tim. You done good. It is good to think, “Well, there is always next year.” And it is good to know “you can’t go back,” so we should enjoy things as they happen.
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tim, your quote, “…thats the thing about sports, pretty good is in reality very good but not good enough. …”. Takes a strong sense of self to deal with that. Yep; the boys done good and I applaud your voicing of confidence and encouragement to them!
Our local 4H softball team finished 1st this year; lots of older boys… but they all graduate and the next few years will be building up the young teen boys again.
Good luck in the next thing.
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Welcome back to you and the team, tim. Too bad about that last day of the tournament but what an experience for the guys and their families. Your story does remind me of the great season my high school team had – going to the state championship game and coming in second. It was an amazing achievement but some of the guys never accepted the loss and are still kicking themselves over it today. If sports can teach you to deal with that kind of extreme disappointment and not give up or lose your enthusiasm or think less of yourself, it’s well worth the time you put into it.
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thanks dale, i’ll report back in a couple of years as to how the boys have coped. for some it was the last time they will play ball, for some it will serve as alesson in team leadership, self control etc. it will be interesting what lesson my son will learn being added to the team so late but not getting much time. the greatest example of would you like to be a starter on the b team or a bench player on the a team. he got to do both this year and while it was a compliment to be invited and a great experience, he enjoyed playing a lot more than getting the medals and trophies.
sports does teach you lots but so does everything else if you are paying attention. do your best with what is in front of you and you will never be sorry is the constant theme.
now if only you could ride off into the sunset sing “happy trails to you til we meet again” those moments are mostly on the big screen.
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Congratulations Tim and your boys of summer. I watched the last 3 innings of the final game on the laptop. Opposing team’s pitcher had a cocky grin that irked me. Were you the bearded guy with the light shirt and hat or the one with the dark colored shirt?
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i think i had a blue shirt on the dark side and no hat. the other guy had a hawaiian shirt and twins cap. he was on my right.
thanks for watching. it was late for the last three innings of the last game on tuesday. after midnight ill bet.
a cocky grin is expected when you are kicking butt int he last game of the world series and you know you are good enough to finish the other guys off. if he ever deserves to wear that cocky grin, he deserved it that night.
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You’re right, of course. I just wanted your guys to win. And it was late – up with school work.
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I sometimes enjoy reading courtroom drama, esp. the Barbara Holloway series by Kate Wilhelm (she also wrote award winning sci fi). Never been on a jury though I would gladly go – curious for the experience.
Interesting sidenote on the paper vs. plastic. Yesterday I stopped (for their fantastic thick yogurt) at Holy Land Deli, a Northeast Mpls. grocery/deli where they use only plasticware. The front window sports a placard with couple of paragraphs explaining why FOAM cups etc are more ecological than paper. Wish I could figure out how to print it here.
And did anyone else hear, last week on All Things Considered, that those thermal receipts have some chemical that is ALSO hazardous to our health…
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so we can’t have hot and cold recipes any more, geeze where will it end?
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Uffda, tim! Took me a minute…
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As a former practicing attorney, I view courtroom dramas with some skepticism, but still enjoy many. My favorite law movie is My Cousin Vinny, absolutely hilarious. And I recently used the “you can’t handle the truth” line from A Few Good Men in a department presentation (don’t worry, it was for humor – I need my job!). BTW, when I went to law school, I learned that some of the TV shows of the time, LA Law in particular, actually was having an impact on attorneys’ courtroom behavior – for instance, closing arguments were becoming shorter, to mimic those snappy and very short arguments that have become prevalent in TV land.
Congrats to the team, Tim!
Steve, I’m sorry to hear about your dog. But I had a dog that lived to 17 1/2, she died earlier this year, and she had very little sight for her last couple of years. It worked out okay, she had a good quality of life for a very long time.
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Courtroom dramas? Sure. Dramas outside of the fictional? I’d rather not. Perry Mason et. al.? I’m there. Drama created through personal choices or a need for attention? Not so much. Probably directly related to coming from a long line of taciturn Norwegians with a low tolerance for foolishness.
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Here are some more great courtroom dramas on film. “To Kill a Mockingbird” is still gripping. Paul Newman was great in “The Verdict.” A curious old romantic fantasy named “Stairway to Heaven” hinged on a trial. And the all-time bestest courtroom drama on film is “Anatomy of a Murder.” Written by a judge, it is just superb, and it is my choice of the best film Jimmy Stewart ever made.
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There is another one: Absence of Malice, that I remember being good, too.
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…and Philadelphia. Unforgettable.
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twelve angry men is the other side of the drama
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And Presumed Innocent… what do those of you who are on the inside think of Scott Turow’s and John Grisham’s books?
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oi met scott turow, he had just finished law school was in the very beginning of his law career working in the basement of a big law office doing the legalize nit picking in writing out business briefs when his first book sold and he got a check for enough money to allow him to quit lawyering forever. seemed like a nice guy.i read one or two of his books and enjoyed them
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Off Topic, but thought i’d report in on the Carlton County Fair Goat Show yesterday. Alba’s triplets were there with their new goatmom. on our end, the triplets are the best thing since sliced bread (but what’s so good about sliced bread anyway??). in the “senior doeling” Alpine class (born before April 1) there were 7 entries total. the triplets placed 5th, 6th, and 7th. in Alpine “Get of Sire” they placed SECOND!! (there were only two “get” entries 🙂 and i think in Alpine Prod. of Dam they got 3rd out of 3 entries. oh well. we had fun learning about showing. and the goats that won truly were worthy. the Best of Show went to a Nigerian Dwarf and Best Udder went to a Nubian. (i like to say “Nubian” like Jerry Seinfeld said “Hello, Newman”) i told Crema, as we stood in the 7th place, that she was beautiful and she will make a great dairy goat. and she will. but i’m not cut out for showing – i was only helping and that was tough enough!
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I have a picture in my head for the “Best Udder” trophy, but I’ll bet that’s not what they got.
Thanks for the report, Barb!
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Earworm alert!! Since reading Barb’s post I’ve said “Nubian” like Seinfeld would about a million times… give or take.
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But it’s not OT-It’s judging in the Caprine Court
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I am also trying to picture what an award for Best Udder would look like, too. Hmm. (“Nubian” is just fun to say – nubian nubian nubian…)
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was it the goats are poor prospects for show winners because of one family trait, in sheep its a wide rear end and the shape of the head, or was it that it was your first time showing and didn’t know how to position them or present them or the judges have a particular opinion and another fair may bring a different result.. or is it all just part of the process in discovering what you like and don’t like in the goat world choices? they are good looking goats, but i think you may want to look into nubians just so you can say it. toggenburg is good but it aint no nubian
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Really late today… I have already publicly confessed (on the Trial Balloon blog) my incomprehensible fascination with the show Law & Order SVU, which has a courtroom drama component.
Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
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Здравствуйте, меня капиталистических товарищей. Я отвлекся от опоздали на весь дым в Москве. Но я хотел, чтобы вы знали, что я до сих пор скрывается. Со своей стороны, я люблю показательные процессы. Я думаю, показательные процессы являются единственным способом пойти.
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Hi Vladimir, welcome back.
For the non-Russian speakers among us, here is the Google translator’s version of what our friend said:
Hello, my capitalist friends. I have digressed from late by all the smoke in Moscow. But I wanted you to know that I’m still in hiding. For my part, I love the show trials. I think the show trials are the only way to go.
I hope the smoke has cleared a bit.
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Thanks for the translation – I remember (and an read) enough Russian to get the big about “capitalist friends” and all the pronouns. Oh, and Moscow. Welcome Vladimir.
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vlad, what ever happened to the russian spies who got caught in the earlier part of the summer. was that a good court case for you? welcome back to the blog and stop back anytime. will you be rooting for the new jersey nets this coming basketball season?
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Busy day, so I am very late. Congrats to all the competitors human and caprine whose fan base includes Baboons on the trail.
Perry Mason and The Crucible-both excellent, never get my fill of either. Something about the filming of Perry Mason in black and white and that theme song just defines a court room for me.
Worked on several productions of Crucible, including the Ward opera-such great stuff.
But getting back to grocery bags-I went shopping last night (thanks for putting the idea in my head, Dale) and went armed with my trusty reusable bag to the co-op (I walked, for the exercise and to feel really virtuous). At our co-op, you can either get 5 cents credit or donate it to a food shelf. The woman ahead of me in line donated as did I. The day’s discussion got me wondering, so I asked the woman checking me out if she knew how much those donations added up to annually. She didn’t but the staff member next to her did. Last QUARTER, the 2 sister co-ops donated $1,000 in bag credits.
I thought that was pretty cool.
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read an article today about a woman who irons 3 or 4 plastic bags together with a steam iron like ironing shirts and when you put three or four together they are strong and last an extended period of time before you need to iron up another.
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I’ve had jury duty 3 different times. My ex used to say I made the perfect juror because I had absolutely no opinion about anything. Somewhere that changed.
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