With some sharp language-related news cutting through the air of late involving the U.S. Navy and some people standing in the road in North Carolina, I thought it would be enlightening to consult with someone I consider to be an expert in the field of salty talk, the skipper of the pirate clipper Muskellunge, Captain Billy.
I tossed some relevant press clippings into a bottle and launched it down the Mississippi through a hole in the ice near Fridley about a week ago, and much to my surprise a reply from the Captain arrived on my desk late last night, boldly dashed on a piece of damp parchment by someone using a parrot feather dipped in pomegranate juice. I deduce that it came from somewhere in the southern climes. Maybe Mendota Heights or even as far away as Cottage Grove!
Ahoy!
Many thanks fer yer question about public language an’ what is an’ what ain’t considered foul!
As Cap’n of a pirate ship, people automatically assumes I has a sharp tongue, a form of stereotypin’ which I resents. Me and me boys labors under heavy expectations from landlubbers regardin’ our manner of public discourse.
Fer instance, if’n one of me boys enters a waterfront saloon anywhere in th’ world, he ain’t taken serious until he either punches somebody’s lights out or utters at least a half dozen choice curse words in th’ local dialect. This gets t’ be a problem on account of th’ vast number of places we visits an’ all th’ different local standards fer rough talk. We ain’t scholars out here, an’ it’s quite a chore t’ keep up wi’ current foul language fashions.
Believe it or don’t, a surprising number of me boys is kind hearted souls who took t’ th’ life of piratin’ t’ get away from uncouth situations at home, an’ they ain’t much inclined to employ harsh language anyhow. They often declines shore leave, on account of th’ fact that it’s too much work to make th’ kind of impression a pirate has to make merely to get served a beer in some places.
But I caution’s ye against thinkin’ pirates is in any way refined. I prefers t’ think we’s Libertarians, language-wise. On board th’ Muskellunge there’s no rules about what a pirate can or can’t say, an’ that goes both ways. Most standard obscenities is allowed as well as any kind of precious, non-piratical sissy words like “Gosh”, “Jeepers” an’ “Swell.”
Where I draws th’ line is attitude. Me boys is not permitted t’ be mean spirited towards one another or anyone else, unless it has t’ do wi’ official pirate business, such as pillagin’ a quiet coastal town or ransackin’ a defenseless vessel.
Th’ one spoken word I never wants to hear on board th’ Muskellunge is th’ last name of that famous FAKE movie pirate, Johnny Depp. If’n one of me boys curses another with a “God Depp” or a “Depp You” or a “you’s a no good barnacle Depper,” I’ll wash his mouth out with a fruity wine cooler – a horrible insult t’ any boy what loves his grog.
Yers in love o’ th’ language,
Capt. B.
The captain has a strong point that the “bad”ness of words is more a question of local custom than universal truth, and the attitude we bring to any exchange is more important that what is actually said. Given that, I do think he is a bit of a hypocrite for taking such an uncharitable attitude toward Johnny Depp.
Do you have to watch your language?
Trail Baboon 
The good Captain and I will have to agree to disagree on Johnny Depp, I like ‘im.
I tend to be a language chameleon and use whatever the “natives” are using. I never swear in front of family members, it simply is not done. (almost slipped when I got stuck that second time right after Snowzilla, but recovered just in time).
Backstage, well, that is something else.
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I find Johnny Depp a favorite actor, as well. Favorite role: What’s Eating Gilbert Grape. Sorry Cap’n Billy. Don’t ransack my home as a way to respond.
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Rise and Swear a Blue Streak:
I have to admit, as well, that a well placed swear word makes my heart glad. The shock value alone is often worth it. But like MIG I am somewhat prone to taking a cue from those around me. My father’s family, good church people that they were, seemed particularly prone to a blue streak. I can remember as a tiny tot, being held in one arm by my Grandpa as he rang the church’s bell on Sunday morning (a fascinating thing) and hearing him swear when the bell pull caught on something.
So I swear in fond memory of my Grandfather. One of my finest rationalizations in life.
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😀
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🙂 indeed, Jacque.
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Jacque, you wouldn’t believe how often I swear to honor the memory of your grandfather!
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Like!
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Our pastor’s wife could (and did) cuss quite well, even at church pot lucks, particularly when she was discussing politics. No one seemed to mind, but just accepted it as part of who she was.
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Here’s to Grandfather!
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Like others, I’m a sort of parrot that repeats what I hear. For years I ran with a rough crowd, and the voice of my interior monologue is unspeakably foul, but I have pretty good filters on what actually comes out of my mouth. When I worked for the legislature I had to clean up my act. It wasn’t that legislators don’t swear (HA!) but they were lofty figures who were allowed to swear, whereas the lowly staff members serving them were expected to stick to church language.
Other Baboons have surely had the experience of having some jarring event in polite company cause them to forget for a moment and bark out something earthy or worse.
We could tell when my daughter was on the verge of speaking her first words. We made bets about what her first words would be. One morning Kathe was feeding Molly applesauce, Molly in her high chair. Kathe said, “I swear, Molly just said ‘Oh God!’ Those can’t be her first words! And where would she hear THAT?”
Kathe extended another spoonful of applesauce toward Molly’s mouth. Molly whapped it, causing applesauce to fly all over the kitchen. “Oh God!” muttered Kathe. Smiling ear to ear, Molly said, “Oh GOD!”
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Remind me to tell the story sometime of F**ker the Squirrel (a story of a friend’s kid…and a cautionary tale for us before Daughter started acquiring language).
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both my Dad and Mom swore quite regularly. we were not allowed to AT ALL. The Christmas Story is a good example of that. love the cursing of Darren McGavin! but the kids were not to use such language.
my Dad was a great curser – but it was just part of his everyday speech. i am more careful to choose language for the company i’m in. goats don’t mind swearing but it doesn’t work on them either. i can say whatever i want to them as long as i say it quietly and in a pleasant voice. the worst thing i can do to them is put my pointer fingers atop my head, like horns – that freaks them out.
i also disagree with Cpt. Billy on the Johnny Depp thing!
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a gracious good morning to You All
Steve, that was a cute story- kids sure are great mimics.
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Thanks brrrrrrrrrrrb! They are better mimics than students, which is to say they are better at copying what parents do than of following instructions like highly trained dogs. If I ever learned anything about child rearing, it was that. Raising a kid well isn’t a matter of what you say with your mouth but what you do with your life.
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Steve, it’s that way with goats also – i can’t get them to come – especially when i want them to – but if i walk where i want them to go, they will always follow.
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So glad to hear from Capt’n Billy, I was just recently wondering what he was doing and where.
In college a friend explained to me about the importance of a well-placed certain (Depp) word. For some reason it made sense to me and I have used it ever since, not always well-placed, however.
Not having had children, I had to learn their mimicking ways as a day care teacher (for some reason teaching second graders that escaped me) much to my dismay at times…why do they mimic only the things you wish they wouldn’t…????
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I am also a language chameleon. I had to get better about schooling my language, though, when I worked at a summer program for high school students. This was at a time when I was doing a lot of theater (see MIG’s comment above about backstage and swearing) – so came up with a list of acceptable (and thoroughly old school ridiculous) substitutes. “Dang nabbit” got used a lot – which was cause for laughter among the 15-17 year olds who couldn’t believe I would use such an odd phrase. I pull that one out a work from time to time now – my cubicle is right on the outside aisle, and near the break area for our floor (as well as the entrance to the stairs), so I can never be sure who is outside my cubicle at any given time. The day I let fly with an honest-to-gosh “God Dammit!!” everyone spun around to see what was up.
One exclamation I keep thinking I should add in because it is so silly is, “Sweet Vadalia onions!” An exclamation of surprise used my WordGirl’s dad on that show…it amuses me.
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my maternal Grandpa always said “Judas Priest!” and i still do –
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People who say that will often be the ones who say, “Jesus H Christ!” I’ve never figured that one out. Or how about “Christ on a crutch!” Say, what?
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My husband was fond of “Christ on crutches” as an exclamation…until Daughter started to mimic language. Can’t say as I’m too upset about that phrase leaving his everyday vocabulary. Not sure why I don’t like it, but it sure as heck doesn’t make sense.
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OT, but Word Girl rocks!
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and not to forget-Captain Huggyface!
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Dr. Two Brains is my favorite villain…(what’s not to like about a bad guy who steals cheese and sings opera?).
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and had the great moment where he was clearly reading his cue cards and said–“evil laugh, walks off”-hear that one all the time at home.
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Good morning to all,
At first, I didn’t like the pirate role that Johnny Depp created and would have agreed with Capt’n Billy, but I am starting to like that character. I think my favorite Johnny Depp movie is Chocolat, and I know there are some other good ones that have slipped from my mind.
I think every one should curse whenever they want to. I don’t. I know it offends people. Cursing can be funny. They are always bleeping cursing on the Dailey Show and it always gets a laugh. I think that is kind of ridiculous. Inserting a curse word in a dialogue shouldn’t automaticly create a joke. A friend told me that his very young child cursed at an older woman in a store when the woman tried to be friendly with the kid. I thought that was funny at the time. You probably would have to know the people and the situation to think that was funny.
My parents taught me not to curse and didn’t do much cursing themselves. If things were going bad my Dad would sometimes say “dirty pot licker!”. I wasn’t sure what that refered to. Probably he wasn’t refering to the pot that was kept in bed rooms to use at night to avoid going to the outhouse wnen there was no indoor plumbing. Somehow, in my mind, I thought he might be refering to that pot. I knew about the pots in the bed rooms because they were still being used my my grandparents when I was very young.
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Jim, my dad was like yours. He’d spent years in the army, so he knew every foul word there was, but he refused to swear. When things went against him, though, and he couldn’t possibly take it any more, he would shut his eyes, go red in the face and then scream “BATSHIT!” It was the worst thing he ever said.
But he was earthy in his jokes. Whenever he saw a bed with a fancy tall posts and a canopy stretched over it, he would remind us, “That’s not such a big deal. I had the same thing when I was a kid growing up, only we kept the can of pee under the bed!”
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Steve, it does seem like we have similar Dads. My Dad had a sense of humor, maybe not as earthy as your’s. The comic, Pogo, was one of my Dad’s favorites.
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Jim, excellent taste in movies, actors and flavors!
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How could that not work? Johnny Depp and chocolate.
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Amen to that.
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From a bit of time in the South, where I picked up “you-all”, pot likker is impossibly good for you soup
http://www.bigoven.com/recipe/8633/potlikker
Loaded with those dark leafy greens you keep hearing about. For New Year’s it represents wealth (not unlike German Sauerkraut) and you eat it right alongside your Hoppin’ John.
Maybe not what your dad had in mind, but you know me, if I know, I just have to tell.
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My Dad was from the Northern part of Wisconsin and probably didn’t know about pot likker. I like cooked greens such as mustard greens. The left over liquid from cooking greens is good. I should make more use of it.
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I went to a very strict parochial school that didn’t allow any kind of swearing–we were told “darn” and “jeez” were just versions of “damn” and “Jesus” and were thus blasphemous, so I think “rats” was the toughest talk permitted. To get around it, I reprogrammed myself to swear in British–my teachers might have been just intelligent enough to know what I MEANT by “bloody”, but they couldn’t do anything about it because it wasn’t actually rude in American. It was a fun affectation until I was working in the public libraries and started getting patrons whose origins were South Asian. Then I had to start watching my “buggers” and “bollocks” along with everything else! Fortunately, the few times I slipped up, the people seemed more amused than anything. I’ve picked up a few words from Japanese anime, but more insults than anything that’d be considered rude.
One of my close friends worked as a teacher’s aide years and years ago in a disadvantaged neighborhood somewhere in the Bay Area. The little kids were already dropping the f-bomb constantly, and she decided to do something about it. She told them that “copulate” was the word big kids used when they REALLY wanted to impress people. So she had a whole class of little kids shouting, “Yeah, so copulate you!” across the playground. I think the other teachers fell over laughing.
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very cleaver 🙂
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“Rats”, along with “Good Grief”, is the best kind of cursing substitute, one appropriate for all ages, yet irrefutably eloquent.
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yeah, CG – same here. we were taught (like Jimmy Carter) that saying anything or even thinking anything like jeepers was the same as taking the name of the Lord in vain.
my Mom, this summer when she was already pretty far into dementia said “i’ve never sworn in my life.” after i regained my composure i asked how she figured that – i had heard her say a few choice words in my lifetime. it seems her definition of “swearing” was that you didn’t say Jesus or God – anything else was fine.
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my mother, the pastor’s wife would also tell you she has never sworn, and she would mean that in any sense you might mean.
She would not be stretching the truth, that would be lying.
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After my mother had a stroke and only partly recovered, she was likely to say things she had never said before. Nothing too shocking and no cursing, but somewhat humerous opinions on things she had not usually spoken about in the past.
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I do remember some of the fine upstanding farmwives I took care of when a nurse’s aide who had had strokes and some of them used language I am sure their children thought they had no knowledge of.
Very sad it was.
I’m quite certain my mother knows the words, but am equally certain she has never uttered them.
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I’ll shut up after this one, honest. I knew a Croatian kid who left his country during the war and entered an American junior high. He loved the political and religious tolerance, and he enjoyed being accepted by American kids. But it bothered him that American boys kept pestering him for instructions in how to talk dirty in Croatian. That was the only thing about Croatia they cared about. This was a kid who loved him homeland and didn’t want to defile the memory of it with vulgar phrases.
Then one day it occurred to him that American kids really didn’t know any Croatian. When some boys insisted he tell them the Croatian words for “Baby, I wanna (bleep) you all night long!” he taught them. Then he had the fun of wandering the halls at school hearing American boys leering at girls and saying (in Croatian), “How I would love to kiss the butterflies off your lovely eyes!”
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No need to stop the stories if they’re this much fun, Steve. 🙂
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I know a really nasty string in Croatian… taught to me by an exchange student. And I did look it up years later and it is indeed very naughty. But it doesn’t feel naughty to say it, because it doesn’t have any of the shock value or history as your own language… it’s just sounds at that point.
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Morning–
I can work up a blue streak… but I’m pretty careful about it. I don’t like hearing it from the students in their casual daily conversation and I don’t use it that way either.
We’ve always been very good at not using it at home around our kids… My Dad would swear when working on machinery or at the cows and I think that’s how I learned when and where to use it. My mother, she never swore and when she did once say ‘Chickensh*t’ I couldn’t believe it!
It also depends on the crowd I’m hanging with. If I work with the stagehands at the local civic center for a day I am ‘potty mouthed’ for the next two days…
My favorites exclamations are ‘Razzle Fratzen!’ or just a growly sort of ‘Rrrrrrrrrrr, Aaaaarrrrrrrrr’ Tim Allen Tool Time sort of growl… but that only works on a minor inconvenience or in public.
Major SNAFU’s or in private and I’ll pull out the dirty words…
It is interesting, onstage here in the midwest, you can say the F or S word and the audience is OK with it… but venture too far into God-___ or Jesus_____ and they’ll walk out on you…
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I also grew up in a non-swearing household. But not necessarily because it was offensive but because my father used to say it was unimaginative. With so many words in the English language, lowering yourself to use common swear words was just a waste!
One of the favorite books that I read to the child was Elbert’s Bad Word. Great book and in the end, rather than the very bad word that got him in trouble, Elbert comes out with “MY STARS! . . .RATS AND BLUE BLAZES! ZOUNDS AND GADZOOKS!”
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My mother is prone to “oh my stars and garters…” which always struck me as odd – not sure I want pointy stars anywhere near where I might wear garters. (She also has been known, when she does let fly with a “shit” – which doesn’t happen often – to look over her shoulder first. I have informed her that her mother is dead and not going to admonish her for the occasional S-word.)
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wow, your mom swears just like I do-I just plan on wearing my garters with the stars on the outside of the leg, it’s really no problem.
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VS, I think I agree with your father about the lack of creativity. I’ve suffered through too many movies and TV episodes that mistake endless repetition of the f-word for either humor or drama. I don’t approve of censorship, but I don’t approve of lazy writing, either. Often it’s claimed it adds realism, but what relation could realism possibly have to a movie in which the hero dodges hails of bullets, blows to the head have zero aftereffects unless they knock a person out instantly, people run up walls or drop several stories without even breaking an ankle, swords always behead with a single stroke and vehicles always explode in a fireball after getting shot with an automatic handgun? (not thinking of any specific title; thanks to a couple of friends I see a lot more stupid action films than I should!) I have to admit, though, I love the cheesy sound effects adopted from Hong Kong action films–Whoosh! Ka-ching! Whirrrr!
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yup, common swearing is just a lack of better vocabulary, that is what I’ve taught my boy.
But for cheesey sound effects, nothing, but nothing beats the graphics from the early Batman series with Adam West.
BOFF!! KaPOW!!!
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Complete List of those sound effects from the Batman TV show:
(stars)
aieee
aiieee
awk
awkkkkkk
bam
bang
bang-eth
bap
biff
bloop
blurp
boff
bonk
clange
clank
clank-est
clash
clunk
clunk-eth
cr-r-a-a-ck
crash
crr-aaack
crraack
crunch
crunch-eth
eee-yow
flrbbbbb
glipp
glurpp
kapow
kayo
ker-plop
ker-sploosh
klonk
krunch
ooooff
ouch
ouch-eth
owww
pam
plop
pow
powie
qunckkk
rakkk
rip
slosh
sock
spla-a-t
splatt
sploosh
swa-a-p
swish
swoosh
thunk
thwack
thwacke
thwape
thwapp
touché
uggh
urkk
urkkk
vronk
whack
whack-eth
wham-eth
whamm
whap
z-zwap
zam
zamm
zap
zapeth
zgruppp
zlonk
zlopp
zlott
zok
zowie
zwapp
zzzzzwap
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Oh, the pirates in their fetid galleons, daggers in their skivvies,
With infected tattooed fingers on a blunderbuss or two;
Signs of scurvy in their eyes, only mermaids on their minds;
It’s from them I would expect to hear the F-word, not from you.
Chorus (after each verse):
We sit down to have a chat,
It’s F-word this and F-word that.
I can’t control how you young people
Talk to one another,
But I don’t want to hear you use
That F-word with your mother.
Other verses:
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/peter.bellamy/songs/achatwithyourmother.html
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Oh, and the song is by Peter and Lou Berryman…
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This thread is making me think of For Whom the Bell Tolls that we just discussed on Sunday and all the “I obsenity in your mother’s milk.” lines!
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Related to Hemingway (but not to the topic at hand today) – I posted meeting notes last night from BBC. Bonus content: a survey and the short essay I wrote about my dad.
Unrelated to anything in particular – has anyone heard from Clyde in the past few days?…I worry when we don’t hear from him for a couple of days. 😦
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There’s also the tirade Robert Jordan goes into – “muck this whole muck-faced country and every mucking Spaniard in it” – can’t think of another book in which there are so many instances of the word “muck” on a single page.
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Does anyone remember how cute Saddam Hussein was when he threw a hissy fit? I think something was lost in translation.
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I had the CD from the library during the “muck” section of the book and it was actually very difficult to listen to. When you read it, you can gloss over, but not listening. Maybe because Muck is so close to the F dash dash dash word?
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One last comment about Hemingway – the Spanish word “conejo”, which translates as “rabbit” – the endearment Robert Jordan uses for Maria – is also commonly used in Spain as a vulgar term for female genitalia. Something tells me Hemingway was aware of this.
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I’d like to hear from Clyde, too.
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and Krista!
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I’m here. Just quiet.
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We don’t need a lot of noise, just want to know you’re alright. 😉
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Cute lyrics, BiR!
I’ve read that airline pilots who lose control of things almost always have the same last words. In view of all the things a person might say as last words, it is odd–even touching–that this is what they say: “Oh, shit!”
I’ve always imagine that when Custer was doing his circling movement to trap the Indians camped along the Little Big Horn so they couldn’t get away, there was a moment when he looked up and saw 1,200 warriors rushing right toward him. “Oh shit!”
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A friend once told me that research has shown that the most common words uttered just before a car accident are “Oh shit,” except in Wisconsin – there it’s “Hand me another beer and watch this.”
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The friend that told me that was, of course, from Wisconsin.
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so true, it’s funny.
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I’ve tried to stick to “Oh, hell” – figuring if it slips out in polite company it’s not going to offend anyone too badly. Mostly that works okay. But if I do something that inflicts pain, like drop something on my foot or hit my thumb with a hammer, something stronger will come out of my mouth before I have a chance to think about what I’m saying. Reflexive cursing.
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Yup. And “Dammit!” shouldn’t make anyone faint these days. But when the inspiration for the outburst is disgusting, my swearing is heartfelt. Say it is 3 AM and kinda dark and I’m headed for the toilet in stocking feet, and I put a foot down on something warm and squishy and smelly that my dog has put there. . . I’ll reach for one of those words that bobs around in the cesspool of my working vocabulary.
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I am ever fond of Katharine Hepburn as Jo March in Little Women hollering out in a most unladylike fashion “Christopher Columbus!”
And tim, just for you as my fellow Vonnegutt lover, “Why don’t you take a flying f* at a rolling donut? Why don’t you take a flying f* at the Moooooooooon!”
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I have a friend who often says “Oh, My-lanta!” Not a swear word but it always makes me giggle.
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People on Sherman’s march to the sea often made the same exclamation.
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I grew up in a non-swearing household, and remember my biggest fight with my mom started when I used the s-word. Ironically, her mother, with Alzheimers in the last years of her life, swore like, well, a pirate.
I enjoy things that skirt around the actual swearing. A college friend was named Bruce Purucker, and was knows as, what else, Mother. I recall a junior high cheer that had me doubled over laughing the first time I heard it:
Rah rah ree, kick ’em in the Knee
Rah rah rass, kick ’em in the Other Knee.”
And abbreviations like FUBAR, which stands for f***ed up beyond all reason .
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Or SNAFU. “Situation Normal, All F****D Up.”
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Correction: make that F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition.
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Here is an OT that I should have posted earlier. I hope no one minds is I mention that my son-in-law, Zack Kline, will be playing at the Cedar in Minneapolis on Sunday at 7:30. It will be the music that tim heard Zack and the Orange Mighty Trio practice at the Red Stag. It is part of the 416 Club series and include new music that was commissioned and the addition of a musican from some other area of music. In this case it is a progressive rock drumer, Peter Leggett. The music will include a new composion and some arragements of Nintendo music and instrumental versions of some rock music including a Radiohead number. Tickets are only $5 for the 416 Club series at the Cedar. I will be there and would try to connect with Babooners if any of you end up coming to this event.
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How come it’s called ‘salty’ language but it is described as ‘peppering’ someone’s dialogue?
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Ha ha ha ha ha!
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I heard a joke, “If Fed-Ex merged with UPS, would the new company be called ‘Fed-Up’?
The next step to that joke that I thought of this morning:
If Fed-Ex merged with UPS, they would probably just call it ‘F-U.’
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you are on a roll!
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Greetings! My sweet, gentle husband swears worse than a Marine on a daily basis around the house when he’s frustrated (which is often it seems). The boys use salty language on occasion and I try to keep it to a minimum. My parents did not swear and also felt it was unimaginative to curse a lot.
I have to be very careful of my language at karate. Discipline and respect is very important. Plus, with kids around and conservative parents, even saying “shut up” in jest gets you sideways glances. Unfortunately, in tough moments of pain or frustration, I’ve let loose a curse on occasion and get a little scolding from my instructor. I’m famous for incorporating a curse or semi-curse in my karate yell if I make a wrong move that hurts or make a bad mistake. Hii yaaahhhh shhhiiii …..
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i always spoke the Queen’s English around students – never a curse. but one day we were driving somewhere -a van full of st. scholastica college juniors and seniors – and i was driving and the engine light came on and without thinking i said “oh, sh**” and the back seats erupted with titters and giggles and “barb said sh**!!!” i was amused that they really believed that i never said anything like that. my Mother always said about a very correct woman “she wouldn’t say sh** if she had a mouthful of it.”
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