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Cave Dwellers

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Big_Cave

Trial Baboon reader and guest blogger Jim in Clark’s Grove told a story last week about a friend who deflects vinyl siding sales telephone pitches with the news that he “lives in a cave.” Apparently this tactic works because no one in the vinyl siding industry has expanded into the Man Cave Design Racket. Yet.

Living underground is not uncommon in human history. Consider the Sinagua people of the area now called Arizona. Their former dwelling place is a National Monument, and their apartment building has endured for ages without benefit of siding of any kind – vinyl or aluminum.

Sinagua_Cave

Beijing has an Underground City – a vast bomb shelter built in the 1970’s in anticipation of nuclear war with Russia, not unlike the individual fallout shelters that Americans built in the 60’s for the very same reason. When I was growing up in Westchester County, New York, my father built such a fallout shelter underneath the garage. You got into it by puling open a heavy iron door in the concrete slab that we parked the cars on. Climbing down the ladder to enter our refuge you could feel the air chill, the humidity increase, and the apocalypse descend. Fortunately the only creatures who spent an appreciable amount of time down there were the spiders.

And then there are the Mole People, still thought to be living in subway tunnels in NYC.

Not that living underground is a lark or a joke. People in Syria who would like to avoid getting killed by their government or its opponents are actually taking refuge in ancient Roman caves.

What would you have to do to adapt to life underground?

55 thoughts on “Cave Dwellers”

  2. Good morning. I would not be good at living underground. I don’t even like working in the basement of our house. I feel too confined and I do not like being some place where the sun doesn’t shine. Also I don’t like the cold and damp conditions found in some places below ground. Good lighting, enough heat, and a dehumidifier would help me tolerate living underground. It would be good to have a skylight to let in some sunshine.

    Although I don’t like being in underground places, I do find them interesting. I really wanted to explore caves until I gave it a try. Then I found out that I am not comfortable underground in a cave, especially one of those where you have to crawl to get in and out of some areas. I am okay in caves that don’t require crawling, but I would not want to have my home in a place like that.

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  3. Morning all. Like Jim, I don’t think I’d last long underground. I don’t think I have S.A.D. but I’m not sure what a live of perpetual non-windowness would be good for me.

    And, of course, there would have to be an underground library, or I’d be in big trouble!

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  4. Morning–
    I agree with Jim and VS. Underground would be OK as long as there was enough windows and I could get outside regularly……..
    That’s one of the things I miss most about milking cows and farming that way; I’m not outside enough. I have a loading dock door here in the theater shop and open the door when I can. I know I’ve missed some beautiful days when I was stuck in here doing something.
    Even blizzards; I miss being home and even with all the daily chores of milking cows, a blizzard felt like a day off. Finish chores, go in the house, and stand at the window and look out and say ‘Boy, I’m glad I’m not out there!’
    http://youtu.be/ms79633njIg

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    1. Yes, when I finally get myself outside on a gorgeous day like today, it’s almost like coming out of a cave into the light.

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  5. I did live in a cave–the cave of my basement–for much of my life. Looking back on it, it seems so strange to me now. I only moved upstairs about a year ago, and yet I find it hard to believe that I chose to live in the dark and dank air of my basement for decades.

    There were reasons for living downstairs that made sense at one time. The basement was cool, and I love cool air. I could smoke my cigars in the basement. The computer was there, and the TV, and the VCR, and the sound system.

    Other things are stranger to explain. I love nature. I felt more at home in my cave than I did upstairs where I looked out my windows upon a city, with its cars and telephone wires and skies filled with airplanes. Down in my cave I was not obliged to look at that, and so I filled my mind with memories of time spent outdoors.

    The more painful truth is that I felt I belonged in my cave world, and I couldn’t feel that about the upstairs world, which was dominated by a woman who was increasingly critical of me with each passing year. Down in my basement cave I lived in a world I had decorated and arranged to suit me, not the upstairs world where my erstwife made every decorating decision and where I increasingly felt like an unwelcome visitor. To be upstairs was to live with the constant sense of having disappointed someone.

    So . . . caves? Been there, done that. Caves aren’t so bad if the light upstairs is harsh. But all in all, I’m glad to be back in the land of the light.

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    1. My office is still in the basement. It has always been mostly a place to store various things and I only spent time working down there when it was inconvenient to bring my work upstairs. Before we obtained laptop computers I did work in the basement office when I had work to do on a computer because the desk top computer was kept there. I have a portable file box and a box of things I am working on that I carry around the house as a portable office to use when working upstairs.

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    3. Steve, it sounds like what you see in your living space is important to you,. I’ve heard you mention before how, after your divorce, you set about to decorate your house just the way you liked it. From the few photographs of yours that I’ve seen, I can see you have a good eye, and it shows in how you’ve done your house. I think how you decorated your house is quite perfect.

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      1. How kind of you, Edith. Of course, under the circumstances, what I needed post-divorce wasn’t “quite perfect” so much as “Steve-not-Kathe.” Right or wrong, at least I live in a space I chose.

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        1. Well…I like it. I guess I meant it is pleasant to look at, and seems to reflect your personality.

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  6. I have been to the Sinagua site at Tuzigoot (is there more than one Sinagua site?). Interesting and worth a stop by if you happen to be in the neighborhood.

    Living underground? I’d say that I’d miss the sun but we’re in Minnesota, so it’d pretty much be the same thing. And since I already pretty much work in a cave/bomb shelter and have spent most of my time in the basement of the house, i guess i’d have to say, ‘not much.’

    Double MST3K word score today. First up, their commentary across the cinematic dog, “Cave Dwellers.”

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  7. And, of course, John Agar, Hugh Beaumont, and Alan (‘Alfred the butler’) Napier in, “Mole People.”

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    1. How do you discover such gems, tgith? You’ve just opened up a whole new universe for me. Glad I’m not dead yet, I apparently have much catching up to do.

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      1. Too much television through the years. I’ve now ‘unplugged’ myself greatly…not completely but to a large extent.

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  8. OT. PJ, here is that Oatmeal Bread recipe for the bread machine that i promised you.

    Oatmal Bread (The Bread Machine Cookbook by Donna German)

    1 1/3 c. water
    5 Tbs. butter
    2 2/3 Tbs sugar
    2 tsp. salt
    1 1/3 c. oats
    2 2/3 c. bread floud
    6 Tbs. buttermilk powder
    2 tsp. (or one packet) or yeast

    Combine all ingredients in bowl (unless your machine has a separate yeast dispenser). Bake according to machine instructions.

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      1. Thanks, vs. We must be on the same wavelength, I was going to write and ask you about it today. Will make it tomorrow, and report back to you. Thanks again, I appreciate it.

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  9. I spent my first year in the US in a basement apartment in Cheyenne, and as you know, lived to tell about it. I’ll like to remain above ground for the remainder of my life, thank you very much.

    Living underground is an intriguing prospect, but the only things that come to my mind are all the things I’d miss above ground; things like sunlight, fresh air, trees, birds, grass, flowers. Perhaps it’s lack of imagination on my part, but I can envision living underground for only a relatively short while, in perpetuity it has no appeal whatsoever.

    I have been in the underground Soudan Mine in northern Minnesota several times, and it is fascinating for a short visit, but I wouldn’t want to spend significant time down there. We also visited a cave with a warm lake inside in Jamaica. A relaxing 15 minute soak in the lake, illuminated by the locals holding flares so we could see what we were doing, was fine, but why not go to the beach instead? If god had wanted me to spend significant time underground, she’d have made me a mole.

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    1. They have an place in Platteville, Wisconsin where you can go down into an old lead mine which is kind of interesting. I’m sure some of you must heard of Mystery Cave in Forestville State Park which can be toured and has some interesting features.

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  10. What would you have to do to adapt to life underground?
    Windows. Egress windows, or a system of mirrors like a periscope, or something that let in some light. Earth sheltered homes are a compromise, having sort of “half light”. I think I could manage that, with a lot of mirrors for extra light.

    I remember going to a schoolmate’s birthday party in about 2nd grade. She lived in basically a basement apartment, but there was no house on top! Just a doorway standing there with a down stairway attached. I thought it was pretty cool at the time.

    There’s a little book by Dan Price, Radical Simplicity: Creating an authenic life in which each dwelling he creates for himself gets smaller than the last. Near the end he builds a kind of dugout… all his photos and illustrations make his houses look very appealing, but still…
    And remember Laura Ingalls Wilder’s On the Banks of Plum Creed when they lived in that duguout built into the hillside? I… don’t… think… so.

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    2. Our friends, Mike and Anne, while they lived in Northfield lived in an earth sheltered house they had designed and built themselves. It was a beautiful house, with huge windows and ingenious skylights so that it was not dark at all. I would gladly live in that house if I could afford it!

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      1. Whoa! I remember Mike and Anne! Mark tuned their piano and worked for Mike for a little while. I bought some pottery from them. Cool people. Nice house/location.

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        1. Did you know that Mike passed away a couple of weeks ago, Holly? After a long, long battle with Parkinson’s, he’s finally at rest.

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  11. There are caves, and then there are caves.

    I could live in the Little House dugout as reproduced in Walnut Grove. It has a door and a window to the outside. Bilbo’s Hobbit house, I am there.

    I routinely work in my basement, but again, some nice sunny windows, and an easy way up the stairs and out the back door (not to mention my trusty 5-disk player for books on disk).

    I loved Marvel Cave in the Ozarks (before Branson was Branson, and instead mostly featured glass-blowers and weavers and candle-makers), even when they turned the lights off.

    But living well and truly underground, I would never make it, too much claustrophobia, I have to know I can get out. Only way I could manage the DC metro that goes under the Potomac was to not think about it. Was delayed under there after the 4th of July fireworks on the Mall in a packed train car-not a good scene for me.

    The World (I think that is the name of the excellent news show on after All Things Considered) had a great piece earlier this week on the Bunkers of Albania. Seems the country is covered with them, and the populace has done some pretty creative stuff to repurpose them.

    http://observers.france24.com/content/20100812-albania-bunkers-transformed-local-amenities-mushroom-hoxha

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      1. Pretty nifty! I know that expression dates me. Sorry but I’m not up on the more current lingo, and I know everyone on the trail will understand.

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    1. I am having pain right now beyond description and in ways I will not try to describe. My fingers and feet are . . . Well.You don’t need to hear. Just explaining my absence.
      Good Holiday weekend all.

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      1. sorry clyde. look into voice activated docs. i think you can hit the go button and try to get the hang of it and if you dont care about spelling you can make it without any horror stories

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  13. As anyone who lives on St. Paul’s West Side knows, caves hold a lot of fascination for people.
    One particular cave, at the moment an events’ facility, has over the years that I have lived on the West Side undergone a number of different transformations. It has been a nightclub, and a library and possibly any number of other commercial enterprises that I have forgotten about. It’s a place with a lot of history. There are other caves as well, now all boarded up because they are dangerous places to hang out, and teenagers were getting in trouble in them. Here’s a link to some information about those “caves.” http://www.captureminnesota.com/photos/417438

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  14. This is an interesting description of some of the underground places in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, though the descriptions include passages as unsavory to traverse as a sanitary sewer that runs under the Mississippi:

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    2. For what it’s worth, this is also about underground exploration in Minnesota. The opening narrative is really gripping, but overall, in my opinion, this is a book that is best gotten from the library.

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  16. I used to work at the Walker Public Library in uptown Mpls., of which many nasty things have been said. I loved it. There was a 2-story sunken garden that had vines and lilacs draping down brick walls. A talented staff person filled the beds and pots with interesting plants. One year we grew strawberry popcorn. I loved looking out at the garden and thinking how nice to have a secret garden out of sight of the traffic and carousers. Those days are gone for good.

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    1. I remember the Walker and also loved it – nice old library, and I wish I’d known about the garden. Just lived in uptown neighborhood in 77-79…

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      1. BiR remembers the first Walker library, a Carnegie. We moved out and across the street in 1981 and remodelled in 1995, I think. The garden’s no secret–I just messed up my name. It’s all gone now, and we’ll move into a new street level library in the middle of 2014.

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  17. sometimes i daydream for a moment or two and i must go to work in my sleep after that to finish the project. i worked with a talented architect a while back on a prefab contemporary design house that you would bolt to a slab poured in your chosen spot with plumbing and electrical already in place waiting for the insertion of the prefab. i loved buck fullers geodesic homes meant to be delivered by helicopter to the site and bolted into place and replaces like we used to do with ma bells phone back in the day. remember when black was no longer the only option? well my daydream was that in my life all the time spent in a house is spent in the same place. in some houses it is the living room, in some the kitchen, some the family room with kitchen living room in a single space but always a single location. saw a cool design a couple years ago where you attach the 40 foot shipping container to a spinning componant that would change the function of the room from bedroom to living room to kitchen and my day dream was that instead of building the mole hole under our houses we could build a house the size of a tennis court round and put a concrete culveryt into the ground about 20 feet deep. put heating and cooling paraphinellia below and stack living quarters, media room, library, art room, bedrooms, bathrooms, below and on the top of the structure put a single windowed room with up to 360 degree window coverage for the sitting room with firepit, easy chair, telescope the patio outside facing south in the summer and north in the winter. i might want to build an underground garage too with the sunroom being the focus you dont want to park a bunch of damn cars outside the windows to look at. maybe put up a shed behind the arborvitae. coy pond with waterfalll year round solar panels on the roof to heat my off the grid abode for subdevision with a twist. if you cant ge ttoo carriedaway to screw up the view what options go away. no norweigen bachelors allowed. the lighting in the house could be a major focus with cool lighting techniques available with indirect lighting in whatever mood you choose. windows that look out onto whatever image you want. grand canyon? alps? gentle ocean beach? fields of grain> sunny, set the sun to change with the real time outside. it could be fun to design the options. those daydreams………….

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    1. I read a science fiction story once about an inventor who came up with something called “Slow glass”. Instead of light traveling through at the normal speed of light, it would take a number of years to pass through the glass, sometimes up to ten years if the glass was thick. So the inventor would install the glass at a beautiful scenic location, say overlooking a river or a valley with wildlife and a good view of the setting sun, and leave it there for ten years, and then it would be ready to sell. Someone would buy it and install it in a city apartment where the normal view was of the brick wall of the building next door, but what they’d see through the glass would be the view of what was on the other side of the glass ten years ago.

      Get to work on this idea, tim. You’d make a fortune.

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  18. I once visited an earth-sheltered home in western Wisconsin. It was a very nice design, set into the side of a woodsy hill, with a fair number of windows on one side up near ceiling level to let light in. It was landscaped so that if you didn’t know where it was, you could walk over the top of it without even noticing it was there – the windows weren’t visible from the path. I recall that we visited in summertime and the home was remarkably cool, much cooler than the outside air, without air conditioning or even a fan.

    The idea of having your home set into the earth like that seems a little disconcerting – you wonder, wouldn’t it be sort of damp? Would your walls get moldy? Would centipedes or small burrowing animals pop in? But I’m told if the home is well designed and the ventilation is adequate, it’s no worse than the average above-ground structure.

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