Songs

That’s A Ponzi!

125 Comments

Just yesterday, a verdict was reached in another Ponzi Scheme case, with three Minnesota men found guilty of defrauding investors who were promised sure-fire double digit returns. What they got instead were double digit remains – most everything was lost in their six and seven digit gambles.

Bernie Madoff, Tom Petters and Trevor Cook all skipped past my door when they were out seeking investors for their fraudulent empires. I’d like to think I would have declined the opportunity because I can be as suspicious and reticent as the next guy, but I also know I’m a pushover for a good story. And you don’t get very far with a Ponzi Scheme if you’re not a compelling storyteller. Otherwise smart people fall for these things – they’re not all dopes. Aside from some kind of surgical removal of the greed gene, how can you protect yourself?

Because we’re all stuck in the musical parody mode this week, perhaps there’s a little ditty that can be fabricated to serve as a reminder when the deal seems “too good to be true.” Dean Martin provides the template:

http://youtu.be/aS6-b7CONDI

When they say “Tsk tsk tsk,
Have no fear, there’s no risk.”
That’s a Ponzi.

When you ask for a look
But you can’t see the books
That’s a Ponzi.

Bells should ring
You’re a ding-a-ling
You’re a ding-a-ling
It will sting when they tell ya.

You are broke
What a funny joke
What a funny joke
Can’t retire, poor fella!

“The return’s guaranteed.
This plan’s all that you need.”
That’s a Ponzi.

When you ask for your dough
And they say “There’s no mo’” You are screwed.
You can’t have happy days
Unlike Richie and Pottsie and Fonzie,
That’s too bad. You’ve been had.
Money’s gone. Oh so sad. That’s a Ponzi!

How can you know if a deal is for real?

125 thoughts on “That’s A Ponzi!”

  1. Good morning. In the day and age probably the best thing you can do if you have money is to put it in your mattress or in hole in the back yard. You would hope that it would be safe in a bank, but don’t be too sure of that. The greedy people who want to use your money and not return it are every where.

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    1. Chris, I saw your late responses yesterday and the “excuse” that you went with friends. Just goes to show ya, friends, jobs, laundry, child-rearing are such a distraction when there is real Baboon work to be done!

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      1. I know, Jacque – isn’t real life a pain sometimes? 😉

        I have a couple that I’ve been friends with for years, and they knew I was on my own this week due to the kid/hubby being in China. So they took pity on me and asked me to stay with them for a couple of days. We had a great visit, and I stayed until late yesterday night, so that we could watch our Miami Heat in the first NBA finals game (which we lost, so that was fun…). When I got home and checked email, I saw that I’d missed an entire musical here!

        As it turns out, all y’all did just fine without me and everybody had great ideas (oh, sorry – should that have been Awl Jahl?). I enjoyed reading what you guys had come up with, but I am sorry I missed out on the fun yesterday! 😦

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  3. Well, the sun is up, we had a little rain, and ND voters were very sensible at the polls yesterday, agreeing to retire the Fighting Sioux logo, defeating a measure to abolish property taxes, and also defeating an amendment that enshrined “Religious Freedom” in the ND constitution, I guess the population here knows what a real deal is. Yesterday was a delight on the Trail.

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      1. Sounds as if folks in ND have a lot more common sense than my fellow Floridians do. Sanity reigning across the land would be awesome, but as long as you have Florida, Arizona, West Virginia and a few other states involved, then you can guarantee they’ll ruin it for everybody else.

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  4. I don’t know any of the songs from How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying, but it seems to me that title could by the motto for Ponzi Schemers.

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  5. you know it when its the real deal, unfortunately you also know it when its not. sometimes too late to do anything about it.

    when the stuff hits the fan
    you do all that you can
    but youre stumped
    but the terms of the deal
    were presented as real
    youre a chump

    what a stupid ass
    what a stupid ass
    what a stupid ass
    what a stupid ass
    youre a loser

    you can raise your glass
    you can raise your glass
    you can raise your glass
    you can raise your glass
    youre a chump

    when the stars in your eyes
    cause financial demise
    its so sad
    its a crying shame
    theres plenty of blame
    too too bad

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    1. Hee, hee! How do you come up with these things so early in the morning, tim? Hope you’re not talking from personal experience. This from one who has never bought a lottery ticket in her life. I do buy fancy coffee every so often, though.

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      1. PS Dale, the coffee is real. The coffee is real tasty. The coffee is NOT a real deal. But somehow I keep going back for more. The poor man’s ponzi, I guess, dribbling it away one cup at a time.

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      2. I’ve never bought a lottery ticket either. When I resort to smugness, I always think I have about 400 more dollars than the average lottery player.

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      3. Neither have I bought a lottery ticket. The chances of buying the winning ticket is the same as finding the winning ticket so finding it is my strategy.

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    2. Yes, tim. Yes in deed. There’s a sucker born every minute and who hasn’t fallen into the category more than once.

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    3. Just in from my morning dogwalk. Phew. Muggy.

      The Facebook IPO seemed to me like the ultimate Ponzi. What are you buying into? What someone ate for breakfast? a vast wasteland of time? The ultimate me-me-me? The only real value in it (that I can identify) is that it does connect people. I found some people there that I really wanted to re-connect with. But that is it.

      You can get all that for free by setting up your own website.

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  6. I find the political discourse here this morning very interesting. The supporters of the Measures that were defeated yesterday were convinced that if the facts were presented to the voters of ND, they would see the common sense in the measures and vote accordingly. Now, the same people are attacking the voters, saying the voters were too cowardly to change the status quo, or else too stupid to understand the measures and were duped by the Measures’ opponents.

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    1. I think when given the chance the voters can and often do make the right choice. The problem is that bad politicians are misleading the public. Still, the public should be able to see through what these underhanded politicians are doing. Sometimes the public does see what the those terrible politicians are doing, but not as often as they should. It is especially unfortunate when politicians appeal to the weak or worst side of people to push through regressive programs.

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      1. The more I read, the more I am inclined to believe those “terrible politicians” are just employees, and they aren’t working for us.

        As to misleading the public, there seems to be an awful lot of private sector media money doing a pretty good job of that, and the politicians don’t seem to be in control of that either, they just react to it and make what hay they can from it.

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      2. Seems to me that we have far too many “low-information” voters who view things simplistically and refrain from truly examining the issues. The regressives have done a spectacular job doling out snappy talking points – often outright lies- which appeal to uninvolved voters. Worse, appealing to the darker side of human nature (fear, intolerance, etc.) is just too easy. Whipping up emotions too often trumps rational thinking. It also seems true that energizing people against something is easier than getting them to be “for” something. The Get Obama Party excels at this, too.

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    2. Congratulations, Renee, for the sweet (and unexpected?) glee at seeing your neighbors vote intelligently. My heart was broken when Dubya was elected the second time (which was actually the first time, dammit, except for that terrible decision by the freakin’ Supreme Court). I haven’t been able to trust democracy since then.

      And now I’m trying to prepare myself for the MN vote on gays. Please, God, please!

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      1. “My heart was broken when Dubya was elected the second time” Those words are true for me too. I think it was a bit like a Ponzi scheme in camouflage, invest in war, And the returns are where?

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        1. I honestly went numb after this election result and spent the following four years as uninformed as possible. It was a survival strategy on my part.

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  7. Nice, Dale. Cleaver.
    I am a $idjit. therefore I invest not. But seriously, that makes me rare among people I know. Most I think were long-shot deals that they took a try at, knowing the odds to win but having a chance at some good dollars. And why not?
    I don’t even know how to buy a lottery ticket. But I think I’ll learn.

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  8. Thus far I have mostly gotten along based on gut reaction and following the advice of trusted friends with cautionary tales – one of the better ones from the early post-college years was to avoid help wanted ads that were looking for “management trainees”…can’t remember now some of the catch phrases that showed up in the ads, but once you got to the interview it was essentially a sales pitch to get you to sign on as a door-to-door sales person or a supervisor of sales people who were off selling sketchy products (in one case it was really cheap perfume – that friend walked out on the interview figuring it was better to sling burgers for Mickey D’s than sell bad perfume).

    On the other hand, I do keep getting duped by the folks who tell me I need to invest my money so I have something for retirement…yeah, um…I guess it’s good I have a few years yet to retirement for the market to pick up…’cuz it will pick up, right?…

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    1. They always say the market is the best long term investment. It should be noted that the market hasn’t completely recovered from dropping below it’s historic high which was many years ago.

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    2. Years ago I invested quite a bit of money in the market because a financial adviser for MPR personally told me I should, and she recommended a financial adviser. I figured if I couldn’t trust someone with an MPR connection I couldn’t trust anybody. My adviser’s office was up in the clouds in a marble tower over reflecting ponds in Edina. When the market crashed, he had already taken all of “his” share of my money, and I was left with very little. That sucked the trust out of me like that machine Ben talked about that sucks light. The ultimate defense against investing foolishly is to have no money to invest, so I’m well protected now.

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        1. Same here – I left a note on yesterday’s comments, but it was awfully late. So to cover all my bases – happy belated birthday and all the best to ya! 🙂

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        1. Perhaps here is an appropriate place to thank–from the bottom of my heart–the baboon friends who met in Minnehaha to celebrate my birthday. Fooled me entirely! If anyone has a Ponzi scheme and you are looking for the perfect agent to fool your “customer”, I recommend tim. He is a master of deception! Jacque is a master of cupcakes and . . . well there are too many to mention. THANKS!

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        2. Happy Birthday Steve! If I could have been there I’d have given you the perfect gift – your Bill Bryson book you loaned me a year and half ago. I’ll return it one of these days I swear!

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        3. Wish I could have been there…I was in the know (other baboons were worried that I had “spilled the beans” with my comment about doing something outdoors), but had the trip to the ball game with a friend already planned. Oh well – it was a glorious evening to go to a ball game. (I usually only get one a season so have to grab it when I can). I’m glad to hear that you were thoroughly surprised.

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        5. Dang. What kind was it?

          I guess seeing the Twins win – 11 runs, 3 home runs, several doubles, a Ben Revere somersault in the outfield, a snappy double play, good defense – was compensation enough. The one game I went to last year was the 15-0 beating by the dodgers. This game was light years of difference from that game.

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        6. Actually, Steve, I didn’t come because at your party you can’t have your cake and Edith too.

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  9. Years ago, I had the fun of hearing Dale read out my economic forecast on Radio Heartland that the home canned tomatoes on the basement shelves were an investment that would hold their value.

    Even in these uncertain economic times, I stand by that forecast.

    I’m also putting everything I can spare into my child. At least if that one doesn’t pan out, I can instill a little guilt 😉

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        1. Ah, you remind me of a guy I worked with long ago who was Italian Catholic with a Jewish girlfriend. He said they argued long and loud about who had the market cornered on guilt. They finally decided that the Jews invented it, but the Catholics prefected it, and peace reigned supreme in their household ever after 😉

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        2. Isn’t it great when two people are on the same parenting page? A little more guilt instliled and Madoff and friends might have had a second thought or two before spreading mayhem.

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        3. I’ve gotta say, that’s a tossup in my book. I’ve known some Jewish moms who could put my Italian mom to shame! Both groups are gold medal-level guilters, though, no doubt about it!

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    2. MPR didn’t use to broadcast stock market results. When that started if felt like a betrayal to me, for I’ve generally regarded the stock market as a national Ponzi scheme, and I didn’t see why MPR should report the winners and losers there without doing the same for the lottery and Canterbury Park.

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  10. Funny, Dale. “That’s a Ponzi!” has a snappy ring to it. I know what’ll be running through my head as I garden today. : )

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    1. Same here – I grew up with that song and it’s already lodged in my cranium pretty well, but Dale’s version is the one I’ll be hearing in my head for at least a day or two now!

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  11. It has to be the final indignity for Bernie Madoff that, despite the size of his operation, he doesn’t even get a crime named after him. Now THAT’S oblivion…

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    1. Well, he did make the Urban Dictionary, Bill – they have listings under Madoffitis (a condition which causes one to cheat people out of their money) and Madoffed (the state of having been cheated out of one’s money). So there’s that, I suppose…

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    2. I wrote this in my head this morning while walking the dog, but didn’t have time until now to enter it;

      When you’re driven by greed,
      to grab more than you need,
      that’s a Madoff!

      When you bugger your friends
      for your own selfish ends,
      that’s a Madoff!

      Pile the moola high,
      pile the moola high,
      pile it high as your ego,

      As if you’ll never die,
      As if you’ll never die,
      you will surely die,
      as we all die, amigo!

      When your books come up short,
      and you’re taken to court,
      that’s a Madoff!

      No sympathy there when it’s clear
      you’ve committed a Madoff,

      All your plans and your dreams
      and your schemes will now do
      a slow fadeoff,

      That’s the way that it ends,
      no more funds no more friends
      no more Madoff!

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      2. I’m impressed – not only did you write this in your head but you actually remembered it after the walk was over!

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  13. In the game of poker, watch for the overhand shuffle. The dealer can manipulate cards very easily with this method compared to the ripple shuffle. And watch his hands closely as the cards are dealt to see if he’s saving the top or bottom card for himself. A twist on the topic but Deano knew his cards!

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  14. I’m not too sure how you know how real a deal is. I am not particularly good at betting, and I can’t say my track record for picking winners is all that wonderful, so I suspect I am the last person whose advice y’all would want to hear on this subject! 🙂 I think most of us have a pretty decent BS detector, and when we trust ourselves enough to listen to it I think we do OK for the most part. But there can always be somebody, like Madoff, who makes you question your own gut feeling about things, and that’s when you get into trouble.

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  15. Morning all. I’m with Jacque, if it looks too good it probably is. I got to ask the bank that a couple of years ago… they were calling me/emailing me about re-financing. It was a better rate, no closing costs, so I asked the guy “what’s in it for you… this seems too good to be true.” He did eventually give me a straight answer but there was some shocked stunned silence for a bit on the other end of the line. Quite satisfying!

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    1. I always figured what was in it for them was that your mortgage gets redistributed over more years-so they get to collect interest from you over a longer period of time, which probably ends in a net gain for the bank, but the “truth in lending” statement that flashes past you at closing would make that clear.

      Sometimes, it really does work out to be a win-win, but it seems insulting one has to dig so much to figure out if this is true or not. Maybe Americans just need to ask “what’s in it for you” more often.

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      1. Very good, MIG. One of the warning systems I’ve picked up–not that I’m a model of doing anything right with money–is noticing how eager the other side is to make a sell. If you are buying a new car and the dealer can’t quit talking about the undercoating or the extra insurance he wants to sell you, you know that his margins are probably lame on the car but great on insurance and undercoating. The harder someone tries to sell you, the more evident it is that that agency has a lot to gain by getting your signature.

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        1. Right! And that should tell you everything you need to know about extended warranties…

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        1. It can be difficult, Krista. I delayed and delayed on getting a reverse mortgage because I could see the bankers drooling whenever we discussed it. As months passed, though, I learned that a reverse mortgage was the only option open to me. I signed the papers trying not to notice the drool.

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  16. Many years ago we were considering refacing our kitchen cabinets, which is a major contracting job. One of our calls went to Sears, which had a division that did this work. Sears said they would send out a guy with a gift for us but we had to agree to listen for an hour at least and both spouses had to be involved.

    That set off alarms. Why give away a gift–a toaster or something like–just to listen to details of a project? Why insist on both spouses? Why insist on a full hour? I said “yes,” having already made up my mind I couldn’t trust them. I wanted to see what this pitch was.

    Some little guy in a suit showed up with a briefcase full of brochures. Right away it was clear he wouldn’t answer questions from us but wanted to control the dialogue. I listened, fascinated, as this fellow swung into his pitch. He started by asking questions like “are you serious about this, or are you just looking for a free toaster?” What he was doing was creating fences that gradually surrounded us, rhetorical fences that seemed to shut off all other courses of action except going along with his pitch. I could see that he was highly trained, so that there was nothing we could say that he hadn’t worked out a counter for. The whole thing was slick and carefully designed. At about the 45 minute mark his face went sour as he realized he was going to lose this one in spite of his care in following the script. We said we’d think it over. He left looking depressed. Our time was well spent. Since that evening I’ve been subjected to sophisticated high pressure sales pitches several times, and I can identify them within two or three sentences.

    We never got the toaster.

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    1. For some reason I find the question “are you serious about this or are you just looking for a free toaster” hilarious.

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      1. I did, too, Edith. But just so you can see how this works, the real point of the question was to disable us from objecting to the price he was going to quote almost an hour later. If we had gone into sticker shock the little guy was prepared to say, “But you SAID you were serious about this. These projects are expensive. If you’re serious . . . that’s the price, and you said you were serious.”

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        1. Of course. The proof that you’re serious is that you are willing to pay a ridiculous amount of money for something. Never mind that their price could be outrageously inflated.

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  18. Over the course of my now-ended 28-year marriage, we thought it’d be smart to obtain professional financial advice. We didn’t have much to invest at all, but it seemed prudent at the time. Over time, we took our financial information to three highly reputable financial advising
    firms. We paid $1500 to one for an impressive-looking “plan”. The first two didn’t gain us five dollars in the years they had our money. The third one was a broker who promised us up to 25% interest on our money. Eight years later, our net loss was significant. What really angered me, however, is that while he was losing our money, he kept trading/buying/selling our paltry sum frequently enough that he made a killing on “transaction fees”! That was it for me. Ever since then, any excess money I accumulate just languishes in a non-interest bearing checking account. I genuinely believe it’s safer either here or under a mattress.

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  19. OT – Too sad for words today. Had Pablo, our 13 year old wire-haired dachshund, euthanized this morning. He had been ailing since Sunday, but seemed happy and eager to eat. This morning his belly was all bloated, and he refused food. X-rays showed that his abdominal cavity was filling with
    fluid, probably from a ruptured tumor on his spleen. Most likely cancer, it generally is in dogs that old, so we decided to put him out of his misery rather than subject him to surgery to perform a biopsy he had little chance of recovering from. Pablo was the real deal, and I’ll miss him.

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    3. So very sorry about Pablo, PJ. You were right not to keep him going if he was miserable, even though I know that’s never an easy call to make. We’re dealing with the same scenario quite soon, I think, as our oldest dog (and our first baby, before my daughter was born) is pushing 17 and is actually starting to look it lately. She’s been remarkably healthy and we’ve been lucky and grateful, but no matter what age they are, when their bodies start failing them it’s hard to deal with. You’re never really ready to let them go when you love them so much. I feel just terrible for you. I’m sure this is rough on you in a big way, but I hope you’ll be feeling better sooner rather than later.

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    5. So sorry to hear this – hard to say goodbye to our four legged companions, even when you know it’s the right thing to do. Hugs to you and Mr PJ.

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    6. Oh, PJ, I’m feeling wretched. What a wonderful character he was. His last gift to you–and it was huge–was to spare you the agony of ambiguity. He was suffering and you did the right thing by acting swiftly. I’ll join you in missing his spirit.

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    9. My condolences; I know just what you’re going through. It’s never easy to lose an animal, even when you know you’re saving them from suffering, and to have it happen so suddenly is extra hard. Eventually you’ll feel better, knowing that you did the best for him, but it’ll hurt for what seems like forever. Our thoughts are with you and Pablo.

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      1. CG, I’ve been preparing myself for this for some time. Pablo had other health issues, and I knew he was on borrowed time. I’m very grateful that the end came rather quickly. Today I’m crushed, but I’ll recover. Thanks everyone for your comforting words, they mean a lot to me.

        We buried him with a LARGE knawable beefbone, a gift from Gene at Josephs Market where I went yesterday to get Pablo a bone to cheer him up. He chewed on it contentedly for a couple of hours yesterday, today it’s accompanying him on his final journey.

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    11. So sorry, PJ. You were very brave to make that decision for Pablo so quickly. He suffered less because you were willing to suffer immediately. He would want you to be kind to yourself and remember all the good things about him.

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    12. R.I.P., Pablo. You were a good and faithful companion to him, PJ, doing a necessary but heartbreaking thing.

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    16. I’m so sorry about Pablo! I hope this poem helps:

      The Rainbow Bridge

      Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

      When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
      There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
      There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

      All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
      The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

      They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

      You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

      Then you cross the Rainbow Bridge together….

      Author unknown…

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    17. I’m so sorry, PJ — I just now read about Pablo and know how hard it is to say good bye to a dear little friend like him. Probably the only thing harder would be to see him suffering, since he was undoubtedly as stoic as our dogs have always been at the end. You were lucky to have each other and my heart goes out to you and Hans.

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  21. They say there’s a sucker born every minute and I’m the sucker for my minute. I’m glad I don’t have much money because it doesn’t mean that much to me and I tend to throw it away on things that won’t last, or buy expensive things for people who leave me soon after. I’ll never be able to retire because I haven’t been able to save as well as I should.

    I’m refinancing my house now and I have this vague feeling of trepidation about the closing costs. I did object but they just looked at me impassively, as if to say, “Walk away if you want to – those are our terms.” Spineless. It’s going ahead. In fifteen years, I’ll be free (I hope).

    Oh, and I buy lottery tickets too. I won $500 on a scratch-off once.

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  22. A couple of hours ago, I posted a story about my distrust of financial planners – I clicked on “Post Comment”, but it never appeared. How does this happen??

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    1. Some of us have concluded that WordPress, the software that runs TB, is messin’ around with banned substances. It behaves erratically. It accepts my posts routinely, and then at some odd moment it will challenge me to prove I am who I am. Don’t take it personally.

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    2. WordPress judged your comment as “Spam”, Crystalbay. Don’t know why, but I just released it from comment purgatory.

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  25. OT, but the best deal ever that seems to good to be true but really IS true:
    FREE FREE FREE!
    On Saturday, September 8 you can hear the following five bands for FREE beginning at 12 noon on the Pavilion Stage at Rock Bend Folk Festival. The schedule is firming up but is still subject to change without apparent reason and at the whim of our silly but sweet little committee.
    12 – 12:45 The Divers
    1 – 2 City Mouse
    2:30 – 3:30 The Cactus Blossoms
    3:50 – 5 Chris Smither (check out his new album FOR FREE at FolkAlley.com)
    5:15 – 6:30 Sally Barris and the Waymores
    7 – 8: 15 Boiled in Lead
    8:30 – 10 Debbie Davies

    On Sunday, September 9, you can hear the following bands, also for FREE, also on the Pavilion Stage.
    12 – 12:45 String Theory (Eli Hoehn, St. Peter)
    1 – 2 Cliff Eberhardt (Cliff will likely also play on Joyce’s North Grove Stage on Saturday)
    2:30 – 3:45 Pert Near Sandstone
    4 – 5:10 The Green Cards
    5:30 – 6:45 tba (We’re looking for some good African or Brazilian music, preferably a band or ensemble, possibly dancers or music and dance)

    We’re still working on the North Grove Stage but I’ll let you know as soon as I can.

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    4. Gotta make my motel reservations soon, don’t want to miss the Rock Bend Festival this year. I think my camping days are over (along with my kayaking days). Anyone want to buy a very nice kayak?

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  26. Money is such a weird thing.
    I know a family; four cousins recieved a very large inheritance. Three of them wasted it all; one of the three was trying to save a business, which he lost in the end anyway; one just made bad choices (his ex-wife certainly helped in the spending) and I’m not sure how the third one lost it all. Just the one kid managed to find a good finanacial advisor and seems to be doing OK.
    Two of them recently lost their mother and are getting a second chance at some basic financial security; hopefully they’ll make better choices this time?? How many ‘Second Chances’ can you get in life?

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