2024, Art, Food, Gatherings, holidays, Music

RIP Alice

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When Alice’s Restaurant Massacre by Arlo Guthrie was recorded in 1967, I was 11 years old.  I remember it clearly and saved up to buy the record album pretty quickly.  I couldn’t find any little clips, so this is the whole thing.

I loved folk music – it made me feel quite part of the times.  Not quite rebellious – I didn’t have much to be rebellious about.   My folks were quite liberal for the times; once when I was in junior high they excused me from school so I could protest against the war with the Webster College kids (college was between our house and the junior high).  Although I don’t know if either of them ever listened to Alice’s Restaurant, I’m pretty sure at least my father would have thought it was quite funny.

In looking up the dates I discovered that the song, sometimes referred to as “talking blues” is also known as a “shaggy dog” story.  Wikipedia defines it as “an extremely long-winded anecdote characterized by extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents and terminated by an anticlimax. In other words, it is a long story that is intended to be amusing and that has an intentionally silly or meaningless ending.”  Mark Twain, Gogol and Isaac Asimov were all cited as contributors to this “genre”.  Who knew?

Arlo was adamant that he used the name Alice’s Restaurant because he liked it, not because the restaurant in the song was anything like the actual restaurant, owned by a friend of his, Alice Brock.  

Alice was an artist, a restauranteur and a writer.  She thought the song was funny but did not like the movie.  She felt that she was wildly misrepresented in the movie and was fairly vocal about it, hence Arlos’ comments that it wasn’t HER restaurant in the song.  One of the movie’s producers apparently made it possible for her to publish a cookbook.

As the years went by she came to appreciate how her role in the song and movie had somehow catapulted her into a 60s icon.  Brock even recorded a series of custom introductions to Alice’s Restaurant for stations that regularly play the song on Thanksgiving.  She and Arlo also combined their talents for a children’s book, Mooses Come Walking, and they remained friends until her death.

Alice passed away last Thursday, just a week from Thanksgiving, the holiday that inadvertently shoved her life into fame and recognition.  I will have to play the whole Massacre tomorrow while I’m getting my vegetarian sourdough sage stuffing ready.

Stuffing.  Inside the bird or out?

31 thoughts on “RIP Alice”

  1. Both, but my favorite is inside the bird. Also, that’s the only time it should be called stuffing because it’s stuffed inside the bird. “Dressing” is “stuffing” that isn’t stuffed into the bird. But I get that it’s easy to call both kinds one or the other. I never much cared what you called it other than, “This is deeeee-lish, Mom! Can I have some more?” 🙂

    Chris in Owatonna

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  2. No stuffing, inside or out, this year. We’re not even cooking a turkey. Because of avian flu there was something of a shortage of birds, at least at Trader Joe’s where my daughter typically gets one with her employee discount. In previous years when we have made stuffing we have cooked it out of the turkey. The turkey cooks better that way and the stuffing is safer. But none of the kids or grandkids care about stuffing, so why bother?

    Alices Restaurant came out when I was in college. It’s a long, droll, rambling story but I would say too linear to call it a shaggy dog story. The whole point of the tale, which had relevance and resonance for those of us males at that age was “how I got out of the draft”. That it was absurd and ironic is what made it enjoyable.

    A true shaggy dog story starts off with an announced subject, then meanders through a seemingly endless set of detailed diversions and irrelevancies and never comes to the promised conclusion.

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    2. First shaggy dog story I heard was “Afghanistan Peach Pie”, told to me about 1965 in high school by a classmate. Presumably this is a variation of the story to which Tom Robbins referred to when he titled one of his novels Tibetan Peach Pie. If so, that’s evidence that this shaggy dog story has gotten around.

      In Afghanistan Peach Pie, the protagonist has an irresistible desire for a slice of Afghanistan peach pie, so much so that he goes on a quest and has many adventures, those limited only by the imagination of the teller, but wherever he travels no Afghanistan peach pie is to be found. Finally, after all those travails and in the most unlikely of circumstances, he asks and is told that, “yes, as a matter of fact we do have Afghanistan peach pie.” Whereupon our protagonist responds, “On second thought, I think I’ll have apple.”

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  3. I put herbs, onions, lemons, various aromatics, etc., inside the turkey. Stuffing is cooked separately in a casserole dish.

    We are not having a turkey this year. If our kids were here we would have something like a lamb roast, roast chicken, or New York Strip roast instead . We aren’t having those, either this year, though. Since it is just the the two of us we are making white bean chicken chili with roasted poblanos and tomatillos. We have leftover chicken in the freezer from a roast chicken we made several months ago. Husband loves roasting peppers, and is excited to tackle the poblanos. He twisted my arm and convinced me to make a butternut praline pie from our own butternuts. He roasted the squash last night. I have a lump of pie dough and some nice pecans in the freezer, so it should be a pretty easy pie to assemble. We plan to take it easy tomorrow.

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  4. No stuffing or dressing, inside or out, for me this year, which is just fine. My brother and his family are going to his in-laws this year. They invited me, but I declined. I’m going to have roast chicken, wild rice pilaf, broccoli, roasted sweet pototoes, and pumpkin pie.

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  5. Rise and Shine, Baboons,

    I do both when I am roasting the turkey. I lightly stuff the bird, then have a side dish of stuffing (sans giblets–we spent every Tgiving at Grandma’s picking out all the pieces of giblet). The secret to appreciating stuffing is really flavorful gravy topping it, which I have mastered. YUMMM. I am not roasting the turkey this year–that job goes to my brother.

    This year we will depart for an Iowa Tgiving tomorrow morning. We have learned not to travel Wednesday evening, down Hwy 35. It snows or sleets, then blows across the road slowing traffic as cars slide on, off, and around the highway. Traveling Thursday morning, in daylight, is generally safer and happier.

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    1. PS, I remember almost nothing about this topic–Alice must have been way outside my awareness in 1967, But then, tucked away in our conservative corner of Iowa everything seemed very far away if Walter Cronkite did not report on it.

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  7. Hello! I’ve got a 15lb ham for tomorrow. (We’re not big fans of turkey) Honey bourbon glaze for the top of it. Will get it on the grill in the morning and pray for the best.
    I’m not a big fan of dressing or stuffing. It’s the texture. If I think too much about the soggy, gummy bread crumbs it will make me gag. Outside.
    And I think we’re gonna do baked potatoes just because.

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    1. I don’t get students helping in the shop anymore (Thanks Covid!) and I’d play Alice’s Restaurant for them. None of them knew the song. I’d tell them to ask their parents or grandparents. First I’d tell them we were going to stop working and listen too it. Then I’d tell them to ask their parents.

      Turning it on now. 🙂

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    2. We always have turkey and ham at our Thanksgiving gathering. It’s funny because 11 of the 26 people who will be there tomorrow are vegetarians! My sourdough sage vegetarian dressing is always a big hit and always asked for ahead of time.

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  9. Well, first, RIP Alice. I thank you for your cookbook, in on my kitchen shelf.

    Stuffing/dressing – can take it or leave it. Have never made it with bread – loved the wild rice version I made once, outside the turkey. 

    I’ve gotta thank you, VS, for highlighting Alice’s Restaurant today, since now I’ll remember to play it tomorrow while we’re cooking.

    We’ve invited a friend over for ham, roasted root veggies, a romaine/pomegranate salad, cranberry sauce. Oh, and Husband’s gingered carrots. Friend is bringing croissants and apple pie.

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  11. I can count the turkeys I have cooked in my life on one hand, and it has been a long time since I did it. If I recall correctly, part of the dressing was loosely stuffed into the bird, and part of it was baked as a side dish.

    I love the traditional Thanksgiving foods. Tomorrow’s turkey feast will be served at 90 year Ann’s house, cooked by Mrs. Kowalski she claims, supplemented by a couple of dishes by Mina and me. The Kowalski turkey dinner includes a sage and onion dressing, roasted maple sweet potatoes, and green beans with slivered almonds.

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  12. i have done turkey on pj’s marvel cooker for how many years now? can it be 10? its got the turkey in the beer can cooker posture so stuffing is out, i am making a tofu turkey tomorrow which ive not been impressed with before bit this one has porential i am looking forward to made the stuffing tonight and will put it inside the tofu turkey and bake it tomorrow.ill report in. we have 3 turkeys this year because our group jumped up to 21 when my brother asked if he could come. his family was vegan last time i ate with them 6 or 7 years ago and i was concerned they would expect to be served as vegans but i discovered they have evolved into a current state of 2 veggies and the rest carnavours. one of them picked up stuffing duty off the pot luck list so i couldnt be assured of veggie stuffing so im pleased with my own offering. so i am making my turkey out of the brine about 7 am, my don spencer will smoke his on the fancy grill and debbie made her dads normal turkey to be sure there would be leftovers for everyone. two would likely be perfect amount but everyone loves going home with lots of leftovers
    my wifes dad makes veggie stuffing for me when we visit chicago for thanksgiving but its dreadful. tasteless bread and celery that can only be made etable with more salt and pepper to mask its nothing quality.
    i really love thanksgiving and with 5 grandkids sticking their heads in for a first time it should be a kick. two new ones dont eat yet at one month old and of the other three, two are are not good eaters and will only eat steak the third will try everything. i bet he’ll even like tofu turkey. got the whole famn damily here this year. plus 9 people and 4 extra dogs . what a treat

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