My guess is that I’m more aware of post offices and postal boxes than the average person. As you know, cards are my thing and I figure I send out over 400 cards a year: I spend a lot of time stopping by post offices during my regular errands.
About a month ago, I noticed that one of the two postal boxes outside my Nicollet post office was gone. I didn’t give it much thought. Then two weeks ago, I swung by the Edina post office. For years they’ve had a “go around” that had four postal boxes – now there is just one. I still didn’t think too much about it. Then as I was going to the drive-through at the Richfield branch last week, there was a massive truck in the parking lot and it looked like one of the six boxes was being hoisted onto the truck by two big burly guys. Shy isn’t a word that applies to me so I walked over to ask them what they were doing. They were really nice and told me that they were removing postal boxes as part of the “reduce redundancy” strategy that the USPS is going through. They said they were taking five of the six boxes; luckily it’s the drive-by box that remains. Phew!
I couldn’t stop thinking about it though and had to do some math (and a bit of research). I’m being pretty conservative with these numbers, also rounding down. 31,000 post offices in the U.S. Wild speculation that the average number of boxes per post office is two. Then I’m figuring 3 minutes per box to unlock it, get the mail out and re-lock it. Times 2 boxes per post office, times 4 for how many times a day they clean out the box. Times 6 days a week brings us to 4,464,000 minutes or 74,400 hours per week, 3,868,800 hours per year. The average postal workers wage is $25,000 which means we’re talking $96,720,000 to keep these postal boxes cleaned out. So by removing all the extras, USPS is saving $48,360,000 – $1,560 per box. Sounds like impressive savings except for one thing. It was a massive truck taking away the boxes. And if I had to guess, those two big burley guys make more money than the average postal worker. I can’t imagine how much money is really being saved in the end, but my guess is that it’s significantly less than $48 million. I suppose if you add up future years it will eventually be worthwhile. Here’s the actual math if you want to scrutinize my work:
| post offices | 31,000 |
| average # of boxes | 2 |
| total boxes | 62,000 |
| # of minutes per box | 3 |
| total minutes | 186,000 |
| 4 times a day | 744,000 |
| 6 days a week | 4,464,000 |
| hours per week | 74,400 |
| hours per year | 3,868,800 |
| average wage | $ 25.00 |
| total wages 2 boxes | $ 96,720,000.00 |
| wages for one box | $ 48,360,000.00 |
| total wages savings | $ 48,360,000.00 |
| per box savings | $ 1,560.00 |
Any other “redundancies” you’d like to address?
Trail Baboon 
United States aircraft carrier battle groups. 11 and soon to be 12?!
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One redundant ranter in the Oval Office.
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I would agree but that is also redundant. I do notice that Melania has avoided being redundant, though.
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If I accept your estimations, and I don’t have a real basis for not accepting them except to wonder if the boxes are emptied four times a day, even on Saturday, the point I would like to make is that those man hours represent jobs. Do those fewer man hours mean fewer tax-paying postal workers? Does having fewer boxes free up the workers to do something else or does it mean they stand around more, in which case those man hours aren’t saved, they’re just less productive. The math isn’t that simple.
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I just dropped a card in a postal box and they do say right on the box that they collect four times a day and they list the times. However, my math is a little off because I noticed they only collect three times on Saturday. The cynic in me says this will most likely mean fewer jobs for postal workers. In this current scenario that we’re living in — absolutely. And I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that the math was simple. In fact, many of the tangents that I went off on in the scenario, I did not write up or actually I deleted — otherwise the post would’ve been twice as long.
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In the body of the text you say that the average postal worker’s salary is $25,000, but in your chart is appears to be the hourly rate of $25.00. The latter sounds a lot more realistic than the annual rate.
Either way, I agree with Bill, the cost/benefit analysis is a lot more complicated than that. For what it’s worth, I don’t trust that the goons currently running the US Postal Service have done a good job of it.
P.S. I love the header picture.
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Good catch. I added one more zero when I was typing. It’s $25 an hour.
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the post office itself is redundant. bills can be emailed. ads can be done better elsewhere. boxes can be done better by others. letters dont get written and mailed any more. other than vs sending cards what use is the post office? i vote we shut it down.
3100 post offices each pay 10,000 per month rent. they each have 20 workers. 5 truck and 31000 heat and electric bills. what really needs to be sent anyway. birthday schmirthday. you didnt need that card anyway and amazon can deliver direct that butterfly net to you grandkids. and we dont really need menards and home depot and lowes, target and walmart serve the same purpose, daytons bloomingdales and donaldsons got it red owl country club and super valu all went away
, hardware stores are down to ace do it best and that about it. remember gambles coast to coast our own ok hardware warner . who misses them. and museums. who needs all those museums ? people shood be working.
what do we really need?
get the dispensaries open and sell the parks to people who can drill for oil. with no post officies and parks we only need to fore all the milatary and police and then we would could give out tax rebates.
i think i found my platform for my next presidential campaign. maybe i could consult with elon. we dont need another electric car company nos that ford makes electric cars and why bother with space exploration. those other universes are redundant, let them worry about their own post offices
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fore is fire
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Please do not shut all the post offices down when you become president. This would be life-changing (I’m not in a good way) for me personally
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Two of my monthly bills and two of my charities only accept mailed checks. For others even the higher priced stamp is cheaper than the charge for using my card. Now two charities and one bill are charging much more than a stamp for ACH transfer.
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tell the charity to contact you when it changes and let them know what charity is benefiting in the meantime
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venmo is free for this kind of thing
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Good “Scrooge” imitation, tim…
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Just 535 redundant sock puppets in DC painted various shades of blue and red. Oh, yeah, and one orange sock puppet just down the street from them.
I’m starting to wonder if the nation would be better off without a federal government–replaced by a single representative of each state and territory elected by each states voters (NOT the state governor).
Have them meet once a year to share notes on best practices, current trends in the economy, how to best use new technology, and how to best cooperate for nationwide issues like defense, immigration policy, natural disaster responses, and other major issues.
In other words, decentralize government so it’s more responsive to people on the local level.
Chris in Owatonna
***BSP*** Tonight! Downtown Thursday in Owatonna. Our monthly summer street fair/party/neighborhood get together. Lots of food, music, fun for kids, shopping, browsing, checking out our quaint but cool refurbished downtown. I’ll be there in front of the historic Louis Sullivan bank this time, selling my books and meeting folks. 5-8 pm on the 100-300 blocks of North Cedar Ave.
Then on Saturday, Riverwalk Market Fair at Bridge Square in beautiful Northfield. Always an enjoyable event for me. Same deal as DTT except small scale and more of a farmers market vibe. My booth will be across from the oil and vinegar store. Times are 9-1 on Saturday morning. Hope to see some of you at one or both events. Either way, Happy 4th of July to all. ***END BSP***
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see if you can barter books for oil snd vinegar
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Might not be able to do that. Weather looks dangerous tomorrow. The event might be called off.
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Rise and Do the Calculations, Baboons,
This entire level of detail and math puts me to sleep. When I had my business, I had a bookkeeper to do this, because I simply can not make myself attend to the math, despite being good at math. VS, you are on your own with me regarding this topic. I suppose I should care. But NO.
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i just ballpark and round up or down and am still usually no where near the right number
but building the excel spreadsheet is always amazing fun
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I just wonder what they’re doing with all the boxes. Are they going to recycle them? Store them? Destroy them? What a waste. I’d prefer they scatter them around more so that they’re more accessible to more people. I also like to see people employed. They could cut down on expenses by using smaller electric vehicles to get out to the scattered mailbox locations. Employing people and moving mail should be the priorities (in my opinion).
Of course that doesn’t help with rural addresses. Some people want to move to the countryside for the peace and quiet, but then they find they also want all the conveniences they once enjoyed in the metro area. I think the PO uses contracts with the rural delivery drivers. They’re not paid as much as a genuine postal employee. They use their own vehicles and are reimbursed for gas, mileage, and expenses using the IRS rates. If rural postal customers have to go online to purchase shipping, they’re more likely to use FedEx or UPS than the good ol’ post office.
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Another expense to calculate into your equations is the cost of all the junk mail. It would save a lot of money (and trees) if sending junk mail was banned. It’s just a waste. I can’t believe anybody responds to 99 percent of the garbage that is mailed to people who don’t want it. It’s a huge problem.
After donating to a few local politicians, and the presidential campaign last year, I am now receiving five to ten “letters” PER DAY from political candidates all over the country. I receive ads for internet, tv, and phone service. I maybe get one or two actual mail items per week. It’s ridiculous to support a system that distributes garbage to consumers. Yes, I have written the letters and made the calls to ask not to have this junk sent to me, but it starts back up again after a number of years and you are forced to deal with it again, one way or another. I think it should be banned. I’m not mathematical at all, and like Jacque, describing equations makes my eyes roll back in my head.
Maybe I should try math for sleep instead of edible gummies.
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if you removed junk mail funds the post office would not have any income all. like tv radio internet. without ads they couldnt exist. junk mail could be replaced by a monthly charge i suppose. $5? $10? $20?
vs at 400 cards could go $25 a month snd be money ahead
id need it to be about $1.50
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Mass mailings and what they do with the removed boxes were both paths that I started to go down and then didn’t.
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Because of security, I no longer put my mail in outside boxes. I always go inside the post office and put them in the hands of inside people. Of course, Trumpists will say this could be fraud if it is my mail ballot.
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Mail boxes were slowly eliminated before this in Mankato. And a post office. The mailbox in front of the post office I use is only emptied once a day.
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Interesting VS that you would give this that much thought.
I mail stuff from the college mailroom often. They do two pickups; one before about 10AM, and another in the afternoon.
(Remember when there was home mail delivery twice a day. Looks like that stopped in the 1950s)
There’s a mailbox out front of the college. It is supposed to be picked up at 3:15PM. Often I see a postal truck parked there for at least 20 minutes. I can’t believe there’s any mail in it ever. Good to have one available, but I never see anyone put anything in it, and I’ve never seen them retrieving it.
One former college student got a job with the post office. He was working 60 hours / week and quit after about 2 weeks.
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Here it is still ok to leave stamped envelopes in the mailbox for the Postie to take back to the post office to mail.
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Actually, it’s still OK here and I actually have a clothespin for holding things under the mailbox but starting a couple of years ago we’ve been having occasional issues where the postal carrier leaves the wrong stuff in the wrong boxes. Just happened again last week. So since I’m driving near a post office almost every day anyway I tend to drop them off at the post office.
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here too
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I can mail in the letter drop at the post boxes at the front of this building, which is how I almost always mail.
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I hope the mail service survives, but a lot of what keeps it going at this point is that unwanted junk mail and solicitations. I love sending and receiving snail mail…
I’m sure there are redundancies that need addressing, but I’ll have to think about that another day. 🤪
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UPS and FedEx pay the Postal Service to deliver their ground packages. If the post office went away they’d have to come up with an alternative.
All those junk mailings are annoying, but they go a long way toward paying for the whole delivery system.
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bravo
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It’s long, but you gotta listen to the whole thing.
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